Billy Graham taught hatred (gays, non-believers), so I assume he's in "hell"?

So you can join me in recommending that that verse be removed from the Bible then, right? Or do you SUPPORT that verse enough to leave it in? Which is it?

 

At no time did Jesus say "I am God." Never.

Given numbers, the atrocities committed by Saddam, Hitler or KJU exceed those of the OT. The world population and the size of cities was very small back then.

 

Modern Secular Humanism is the best - no religion can top it.

 

So HOW MANY atrocities would have to have been committed by the god in the OT for you to then consider him an IMMORAL GOD? Please give us a number.

 

A massive 17+ verses in the Bible show that they believe Jesus is god.

The first words of John's gospel imply that Jesus ("the Word") is God.

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. John 1:1

And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us. John 1:14

And Jesus (sometimes) claimed to be God.

• By forgiving sins. (Only God can forgive sins.)

Jesus ... said unto the sick of the palsy; Son, be of good cheer; thy sins be forgiven thee. And, behold, certain of the scribes said within themselves, This man blasphemeth ... That ye may know that the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins, (then saith he to the sick of the palsy,) Arise, take up thy bed, and go unto thine house. Matthew 9:2-6, Mark 2:3-12

Therefore did the Jews persecute Jesus, and sought to slay him, because he had done these things on the sabbath day. But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work. Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God. John 5:16-18

• By declaring himself, "Lord of the Sabbath."

The Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day. Matthew 12:8, Mark 2:28, Luke 6:5

• By claiming to be the same as God.

He that hath seen me hath seen the Father. John 14:9

• By saying that he existed before Abraham, using one of God's names, "I am."

Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am. John 8:58
After hearing Jesus say these things, the Jews tried to stone him to death for claiming to be God.

I and my Father are one. Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him. John 10:30-31

The Father is in me, and I in him. Therefore they sought again to take him. John 10:38-39

And when Thomas called Jesus God, Jesus didn't correct him. Rather, he said that everyone should believe he is God, even those who have never seen him.

And Thomas answered and said unto him, My LORD and my God. Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed. John 20:28-29

The New Testament (sometimes) also refers to Jesus as God.
By saying:

• That the church of God was purchased with the blood of God (or maybe the Holy Ghost).

Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood. Acts 20:28

• That Jesus created all things.

For by him [Jesus] were all things created. Colossians 1:16

• That the fulness of the Godhead dwells in Jesus bodily.

For in him [Jesus] dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. Colossians 2:9

• That God was made manifest in Jesus's flesh.

God was made manifest in the flesh. 1 Timothy 3:16

• That Jesus is the great God who is in the form of God, is equal to God, and sits on the throne of God.

Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ. Titus 2:13

Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God. Philippians 2:6

But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom. Hebrews 1:8
In the book of Revelation, Jesus calls himself the first and the last, and the alpha and the omega. (Which arguably means that he thinks he's God.)

I am the first and the last. Revelation 1:17

I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. Revelation 22:13

 

Oh, you mean like erasing the Civil War from history books to then pretend it didn't happen?

I see no reason whatsoever to edit the Bible any more than reason to edit the I Ching or Kama Sutra. Do you claim Hitler's Mein Kampf and Maos Little Red book should be edited to remove everything you don't like in those books?

The notion of human evolution, including socially and ideologically, is a hard topic for you, isn't it?

 

Listen to yourself! Just LISTEN to yourself! You're trying real real hard to EXCUSE GENOCIDE and other atrocities!! Wow! You are....seriously, that's what your goal is with that post!

Can you condemn God/Jesus for accepting SLAVERY? Modern Secular Humanists do, but Christians can't seem to find the moral courage to do that, apparently (since it's still in the Bible)!

 

I DON'T SUPPORT THOSE TWO BOOKS! If I supported those 2 books I'd say "wow, we need to totally revamp this sucker!" Christians are not as ethical as I am, however, obviously.

 

No, just have a better, more ethical, working version - still keep the regular old Bible, but just admit that you can do better than the Biblical writers by molding a newer modern version - say not bringing forward the parts that hate gays. Are you caring enough to do that?

 

Yeah, cut and paste extrapolations, not ONE of Jesus saying "I am God." A bad choice you picked too. That is material arguing against those who claim Jesus is not God, which also is your claim. Like I said, you are only debating yourself in your own head.

You DO believe in God and you DO believe in Jesus for whatever reason, and furiously are arguing with yourself in your head about it. 100% of your messages, ALL OF THEM, are from the position that God does exist and of the divinity of Jesus. To the exact opposite, mine are from a secular, humanist perspective. Your messages are the religious kook messages, not mine.

You post about Jesus solely from a spiritual perspective and one in which he is God. I post about Jesus from a literary and historic perspective.

 

It's a hard topic for YOU, because you can't seem to wrap your head around the idea that things IMPROVE...including belief systems (the Bible should improve.)

 

So then you believe that Christians are delusional for their belief in god, right?

 

Nonsense.

 

What a stupid idea, but it DOES fit your "if you were God you would..." model.

So, wannabe God, why don't you do that? Write a better Bible. Who knows, it might sell. Maybe could get a whole new religion about yourself like Scientology or Rev. Moon. Like Islam and the prophet Mohammed, you could start a whole new religion around the Prophet Fred - or whatever your name is.

Since the Bible makes you so crazy in the head, why do you read it?

 

Jesus almost never spoke directly/clearly....one verse says he spoke in parables (he didn't always, but) to confuse people (that way fewer of them would make it to heaven so more would get tortured in hell - he was NOT a nice guy!)

 

Improving on "kill gays", "women are worth 1/2 a man", "slavery is cool", etc. is a "stupid idea"? Wow.

 

Mine are from the "let's not try desperately to WHITEWASH what the Bible says", like your position is.

What's the 3 very worst, most barbaric things in the Bible, in your opinion?

 

Come on, dude:
I am the first and the last. Revelation 1:17
I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. Revelation 22:13

 

Yes, I agree that we've improved/evolved in those ways - so we don't need to look back THOUSANDS OF YEARS to get our ethics and overall belief system from!!

 

Gotta run and grab some dinner, so see you dudes later:

 

Because there no longer is any enforcement of religious tenants of Christians in the USA or West, anyone can believe anything and still claim to be Christians - and make a basis for that claim.

The Christianity you rant against ceased to exist before you and I were born. People who don't like gays, won't like gays regardless of what the Bible says. Most people use the Bible to rationalize their own opinions, nothing else. Pick a verse and prove your right - on anything about anything.

 

The past is a continuation to now. The Christianity of the past is in the past, like everything in the past is in the past. But I do understand your view that what we really all should do is look to you - so we understand the superiority of Hitler, Manson, Stalin and KJU to the historic pure pacifist Jesus.

Start with young people at colleges in lecturing on the relative moral superiority of Adolph Hitler over the Jew Jesus. They'll be a few Jew-haters applaud anyway.

Enjoy your dinner.

 

No one even knows who wrote Revelations other than it was not written by the disciple John. It more seems particularly Gnostic and is of a vision claimed to be had, not of anything that actually happened. It is a dream story that really should begin with "I had a dream of..."

It is not Jesus saying "I had a dream of..."

 

Do you really want to follow a book that says a rapist can pay the father of the victim $50 for raping his daughter and then marry her?

 

That sounds like idolatry.