It’s Not Just ‘Incels’ Who Feel Entitled To Sex

Your the one condemning people over their sex lives. I'm just pointing out your folly.

 

Seriously? I'm thinking there is more to your sexual appetite than bukkake.

 

I'm not in this equation. I'm not condemning incels and I am not an incel.

 

Dude, you inserted yourself into the middle of it. Please man up and be accountable for your actions.

FWIW, anyone who really thinks we'll be having a Death Race contest with InCels is demented.

 

You're just upset because I equated your fantasy with what you accuse them of doing.

 

Not all incels are losers. In high school, I was voted the #5 best looking guy (out of 115 guys in my senior class) and I dated the best looking girl in the school for an entire year. I make over $100,000 per year. But for a time when I was divorced, I was living on just 30% of my salary after taxes and payments to my ex-wife. I could barely feed and clothe myself, much less wine and dine a woman. I went without for several years.

In Dallas, women expect to be flown to Cancun monthly.

 

See? You're in the center of what you called my "circle jerk". Interesting.

 

I think this is more of a problem of what we are taught to expect from life and what success is. Sex and relationships are put pretty high on priorities and supposedly happiness is reliant on these things. Then if you happen to get these things and you are not happy you are doing it wrong. Incels are miserable because they are miserable people who love to blame someone else. They are part of the modern day victim class of people who include the alt right along with the emo left and anyone else who feels everyone else is keeping them from happiness when really they are often to blame.

 

"InCels" are people who do not choose to be celibate and feel they have a "right" to get laid and are angry enough about it to commit murder. Don't just take my word for it, there are several articles about it online. This is who some on this forum have great sympathy over:

https://www.nationalreview.com/2018/05/sex-is-god-for-incel-sexless/
The Sexless Life When Sex Is God
By DAVID FRENCH
May 4, 2018 4:21 PM
The men of the incel movement are living a life devoid of meaning.

Terrible movements often intrude on our lives through the acts of terrible men. And so it was on April 23, when a man named Alek Minassian drove a van on Toronto city sidewalks, deliberately ramming pedestrians. He killed ten and injured 16 before he stopped his rampage. Minassian, it turns out, was part of the so-called “incel rebellion,” a vicious online community of men who are angry that women won’t have sex with them.

No, really, that exists. “Incel” stands for “involuntarily celibate.” And self-described “incels” have developed an entire theory for their lack of sexual prowess — a theory that essentially blames women for being attracted to strong or rich men. And it’s a theory that’s steeped in sexual entitlement, the belief that men somehow have a right to have sex. Most incels aren’t violent: As Zack Beauchamp wrote in an interesting Vox piece, many are “simply sad and lonely men, suffering from extreme social anxiety or deep depression.” Others, however, have translated their heartbreak into rage and violence. Alek Minassian is one such man. Another is Elliot Rodger, a California man who went on a killing spree in 2014.

Earlier this week New York Times columnist Ross Douthat wrote a characteristically thoughtful piece noting in part that this sense of frustration and despair is a natural consequence of the sexual revolution. This revolution, “like other forms of neoliberal deregulation,” created “new winners and losers, new hierarchies to replace the old ones, privileging the beautiful and rich and socially adept in new ways and relegating others to new forms of loneliness and frustration.”

This is exactly right, and as Ross relates, the problem is exacerbated by our society’s “essentially Hefnerian” view of sex. In other words, the sexual revolution didn’t just disrupt existing social norms and existing theological ideas; it sought to replace them with a worldview that elevated sexual experience to quasi-religious status. Sex isn’t just part of life, it is essential to fulfillment.

When it comes to incel, this is a new twist on an old story. Strip transcendence from the culture, replace the greater thing (genuine faith) with a lesser thing (sexual indulgence) that is not universally available, and the recipe for human misery is complete. When sex is the new god, what are the sexless to do?

Substitute sex for wealth or status, and you see that this temptation has ancient and enduring roots. And the secular response is often just as destructive as the initial mistake. Wealth isn’t universally available and some people excel when others fail, and the question comes: “How can we level these economic outcomes?” The same applies to status hierarchies even in the midst of greater economic equality. “How can we make everyone special?”

Ross is certainly correct that a conservative response dedicated to “reviving or adapting older ideas about the virtues of monogamy and chastity and permanence and the special respect owed to the celibate” is “not the natural response for a society like ours,” so I’d suggest a modification. Celebration of monogamy and chastity should be the result of the intended, much larger transformation. Put simply, one cannot locate his sense of transcendence in chastity or monogamy but rather in the obedience to and reverence for a living God.

The truth of Ecclesiastes 3:11 — that God set eternity in the hearts of men — has rarely been more obvious than in the present age. And the endless, futile quest to replace the eternal with the temporal is crushing the human spirit. And, there is of course a Christian analog to this secular pursuit — the legalism of fundamentalism of all stripes, a legalism that places devotion to virtue over devotion to God, that makes, say, monogamy or celibacy the purpose of life rather than the consequence of pursuing the larger purpose.

The men of the incel movement are pursuing a god they can’t have. They’re in fact pursuing a god that will disappoint them even if they obtain what they want the most. And so they do what sinful men have done throughout all of human history. They lash out at the objects of their desire. No woman should feel the least bit guilty for not desiring any man — no matter how many movies or television shows teach them that the nerd is the true prize, and the lonely man is the best catch. Instead it is the responsibility of the lonely man to find meaning apart from women. And that meaning happens to be found in a resurrected Christ who — unlike any other false god — can be found by any person who seeks His face.

 

I don't know about the Cancun thing, but divorce is a huge life change for men and women. Men and women are often no longer attractive and have "baggage". It's not always their fault and it's also not always a problem.

 

I'm still very attractive to middle-aged women. My days of being with women in their 30's are long gone, and I have no problem with that. I think an age gap of more than 10 years is not feasible and I just turned 56.

 

I was divorced at 54. It's harder for women than men. I met my wife on POF and have never been happier. We all have baggage. If all you are looking for is someone to cook, clean house and jerk you off once a week, you probably might look at why you are divorced in the first place. In that case, the old saying about "If it flies, floats or f__ks, it's cheaper to rent" comes to mind.

Agreed it's not solely on the man; married requires work by both.

 

Agreed 100%. In fact, when I divorced, I didn't want to be one of "those guys" who was dating someone 20 years younger than them. Not that it doesn't work for some, but most are just buying love, not living it. When the man is out of money, he's usually also out of a honey.

I put 45-60 on my age range when I signed up for POF at age 54 since I was looking for a long-term relationship. According to my wife, about 2/3s of the guys on there were just looking for short-term relationships.

 

I’ve been happily married for 26 years, but my brother’s wife cheated on him and left him after 20 years. He’s in his late 40s and raising 2 kids. He’s struggling with the dating thing. His ex stayed far more physically attractive than him and his standards are a little higher than he can attract. Maybe he’ll get lucky and meet the right woman for him but he’s pretty busy with teenagers and running the house. He’s a sharp guy and a very good person. He would make a good husband for someone if that’s what he wants.

The good part is that the kids see their mom for what she is and don’t have much to do with her. Even the ex’s dad was going to testify on behalf of my brother if it came to it during the custody battle during the divorce.

 

If consensual sex between two adults is banned by the government how you can legally get sex?

 

Actually in United States and Canada people are prohibited from the sex with willing adult partner in case you did not know.

As well as healhcare , people is are banned from purchasing government health insurance.
As well as right to travel does not exist in US. Try go to Cuba legally.

You essentially saying we ban everything and people have no rights

 

You guys so naive here. You do not even understand that most of the time a man gets Zero responses on the dating sites.

 

I think the underlying problem is exemplified in this thread. All of your ideas and positions are reprehensible. If you are a microcosm of society then no wonder it’s so ****ed.

 

Best of luck to him. We aren't responsible for the behavior of our significant others, but I think it's smart to reflect on our own behavior in a marriage. Cheating is, of course, a major line. I don't have any kids, so that was never a factor. Regardless, I wish him the best and am sure he will find someone.

 

I didn't have any problem. Of course, I have a cool job and am a responsible person.

 

"Your ideas"? Dude, no one here is an InCel DB. No one on this thread is sympathetic of murdering people because they can't get laid.

Are you an InCel?

 

I don't know where that comes from.

You can legally travel to Cuba now, although you have to jump through US imposed hoops.

Which is weird considering that this was the ONLY Communist country that you could not legally travel to.

 

You may want to take a class in English grammar, etc.

 

I am not in any way at all supportive of the Incel Movement and neither do I feel sorry for men who sit at home and pitty themselves because they cannot get laid. However, the underlying problem here is a very serious one that should be discussed much more often and that is the fall of romantic and marital norms.

In the past, there were natural meeting points where even the less handsome man could meet a girl such as the market place, the church or the dancing spot. Furthermore, chivalry and gentlemanship was appreciated and it was not as much of a taboo to ask the secretary or other collegues out as it is today.

On top of this, we have seen the total degeneration of sexual norms and the fall of family which in combination with technologies such as birth control and Tinder has caused a very toxic environment for both genders.

Furthermore, men are desinsentivized from getting married due to the harsh divorce laws and womrn are, indirectly, incentivized to have a divorce.

 

Agreed it's not the norm, but with over a million Cubans in Florida, it's about political clout and votes.

Personally, I think that if free trade is the best way to end communism in Russia and China, it should work for Cuba too.