"Russian Collusion" Is the Biggest "Conspiracy Theory" of All Time

The difference between Russia collusion and most other "conspiracy theories" is that there is the very least proof that the accused attempted to do EXACTLY what they are accused of. It would only be similar to, say, 9/11 conspiracies if we had proof positive that Bush had actually plotted 9/11 and his claim of innocence was that the terrorists he was talking to just didn't pony up with the goods and someone else did it. It would only be similar to, say, the moon landing conspiracies if it was had had proof positive that NASA was planning to fake the lunar landing, but their new excuse was that their fake had failed and so someone really landed there anyway. And, psst, this "conspiracy theory" is critical of the elites. There is no alternate universe in which Trump and his compatriots aren't elites.

 

Oh, trust me I know. One of my threads got sent to the "conspiracy theory" subforum because one liberal troll called it a "conspiracy theory". That's all it took. Yet liberals are allowed to post endless threads about "Russian collusion" which has zero proof backing it up. Apparently, liberals are allowed to frame the narrative and every one else just has to go along for the ride.

 

It's funny that Democrats go around calling people "comrade" when their party is trying to create an American version of Soviet Russia where the government controls everything and the collective good supersedes the rights of the individual.

 

There is no proof that Trump colluded with "the Russians" to do anything. None.

 

Which isn't even what I said. I said his campaign planned on colluding. Which they did. They were contacted with the offer to collude with the Russians and pursued it. No wingnut conspiracy comes close to having that much evidence to start with. You don't have NASA plotting with a movie studio to fake the moon landing. You don't have Bush plotting with terrorists to blow up the WTC. We do have the Trump campaign plotting to collude with Russia.

 

Not even close. 911, was and remains the biggest failure of the American People of all time and the 2nd biggest conspiracy in US history. The 1st, was when Lincoln and the Congress sold the "united states the Republic" to international banksters leading to the creation of the Federal Reserve Bank and the loss of control over your own currency. That created you as Chattel or in modern times, an Economic Slave. Neither one of those had a special prosecutor, though each one deserved a special prosecutor.

The same people who engineered 911 in 2001, are cut from the exact same cloth as those who engineered your Economic Slavery in 1871. You Elected Donald Trump. You did not Select Donald Trump. There is a massive difference. Those who control your Economic Slavery, Select two of their own. You then go to the poles and Elect one of their own. No matter what you do, you don't have a true Representative Democracy, because you are not in control of the Selection Process. You are deluded into thinking that your Election = Selection.

You live in a world of Conspiracy. Its all Conspiracy. All the time. 24/7/365/366. At no time are you free from being involved in Conspiracy. It is exactly the opposite of what you've been lead to believe. You've been lead to believe that Conspiracy is rare and that just might be the biggest Con Job of all.

911, was never Investigated. It was Reported to you. As far as the Organic Constitution is concerned, you've never read it. The only one you've read is the Corporate Document called the Constitution. It does not belong to you. It belongs to the Corporation that owns it - just like they own you.

 

Why do you say muller is investigating collusion. Is that in his legal mandate?

As far as the tax payer dime, we spend more sending trump to Mara lago.

 

Proof/evidence isn't necessary any more; just generate a lie, or contrive a subterfuge, and it will very soon take on a life of its own.

 

I strongly suspect Donald Trump was directly involved in Russian collusion, and I hate conspiracy theories. Sometimes I do fear falling into the mindset of a conspiracy theorist, but I still hold that there are important differences in this case. I've listed some of these before.

1) Conspiracy theories reject the "official story." But there currently is no official story to reject. There won't be until the Mueller probe reaches a conclusion. If the probe is halted before it can reach a conclusion, then it could be argued that there will never be a legitimate official story. If the current administration welcomed this murky outcome, that would be strong evidence of guilt in itself.

2) Rejection of this so-called conspiracy theory entails embracing a counter-conspiracy theory involving an alleged deep state.

3) The evidence for the counter-conspiracy theory seems actually much more distorted, similar to the hollow arguments of a typical conspiracy theory.

For example, It's clear that suspicion of people in Trump's campaign predates Trump's campaign. Carter Page was already suspected of having ties with Russian intelligence, which we know reached out to him. He was also an open pro-Putin fanatic. If there was wiretapping of Trump's campaign, then it was almost certainly because Manafort was already being wiretapped prior to being asked to join the campaign. You can't hire a bunch of suspected criminals and then get mad when suspicion rubs off on you.

 

One Russian lawyer = The Russians? Says who? A bunch of lying Democrats and neocons who hate Trump?

According to your logic, virtually every politician in Washington DC is "colluding" with foreign powers on an almost daily basis. Israel, Saudi Arabia, the UK, the Ukraine, etc. So where is the big investigation into all of that?

Rhetorical question, of course. The entire "Russian collusion" narrative is a gigantic fraud concocted by Trump's enemies. It's beyond obvious at this point.

But this glaring fraud is somehow excluded from the definition of a "conspiracy theory" because authority figures keep saying it's legitimate. That's all it takes for some people, is the word of sainted "officials" in government, and they will treat it seriously.

That kind of bankrupt thinking is how we got Vietnam, and Iraq, and Libya, and the war on drugs, and fraudulent dietary guidelines, and all the other massive frauds perpetrated by the government. Yet despite all their demonstrable lying and corruption, some people still take them seriously simply because they have fancy titles like "Director" or "Commissioner" or "Senator" while labeling anyone who challenges these liars as "conspiracy theorists".

 

One Russian lawyer . . . who has lobbied on behalf of the Russian government repeatedly, who was lawyer for their intelligence agency, and who was (by her own admission now) a Russian informant. And wasn't she there with an oligarch and a former KGB agent? Then of course there was the known Russian intelligence asset who reached out to Papadopoulos. These were people who were put in contact with the campaign for the express purpose on connecting them with Russian government-provided dirt on Hillary Clinton. Again, this is now all by their own admission. To pretend this is just like any other, legitimate foreign contact or that it doesn't warrant investigation is absolute lunacy.

 

Wow... someone met with a lawyer who might have been working with a foreign government. That must be the first time in US history something like that has ever happened. We must get to the bottom of this immediately.

 

Lol, you are certainly determined to misrepresent this. How about the truth now. Wow... campaign members met with a lawyer (along with an oligarch and an ex-KGB agent) working with a foreign government, and they met for the specific purpose of obtaining compromising material . . . which would be a felony. And this was not the only such contact. And they tried to cover it up. And they lied about the purpose of the meeting. Yes, it would be a pretty good idea to get to the bottom of that. The facts being inconvenient for your politics do not magically transform them into non-facts.

 

You all are certainly entitled to your opinions.

But honestly after Flynn resigned I would have thought Trump would have been smart enough to set up his departure. A trip in an ambulance and Pence quickly switched in it would have all been quietly dismissed before the Trump messed up and triggered the Mueller investigation.

Maybe it's what the GOP wants. With Trump slowly ripped apart they can purge the lunatic fringe as Russian collaborators and/or spies and be reborn the Centrist Party they need to be in order to survive against a Centrist Democratic party.

 

It's not even close to a felony. And that is why Trump Jr. will never be indicted for that meeting.

Politicians lied about something? You don't say...

Anyway, how is what Trump Jr. did fundamentally any different than what the Clinton campaign did when they hired a British spy to dig up dirt on Trump?

And since I'm not a Trump supporter, I don't see how any of this would be inconvenient for my politics. Are you under the impression that any defense of Trump is tantamount to supporting Trump? I vigorously defend Obama's Iran deal, so does that mean I'm an Obama supporter?

 

It most certainly is a felony for a campaign to receive, accept or solicit anything of value from a foreign national.

Yes. In this case they lied and attempted to cover up an attempted felony.

We know for a fact that they attempted to do exactly what they've been accused of. Pretending an investigation isn't warranted requires truly olympian mental gymnastics.

See the past dozen times or so I've stated that they should be investigated too.

 

The one Russian lawyer that you speak of was involved with Fushion GPS both before and after the Trump Tower meeting.

And Nellie Ohr has now been linked to one of the Russian compounds that Obama quietly shut down. Nellie Ohr also worked for Fushion GPS.

So if you are looking at people who actually cooperated with Russian officials, Fushion GPS is the ONLY entity where actual informational transactions took place and where money via Perkins Coie was transmitted.

Funny that money that was transferred with the blessings of the DNC Brooklyn accounting office ended up in the hands of a Brit and Russian agents used to try to impact the 2016 US election.

 

It's almost as if people get suspicious when you have an abundance of circumstantial evidence. We know for a fact that Russia assisted in getting Trump elected. What we don't know is whether Trump worked directly with Russia or Russia acted on its own. I have always leaned towards the latter because 1) Russia wanted Trump to have deniability, and 2) Russia knew they were better off with a dumb guy in charge of their biggest geopolitical rival, even if they aren't controlling him.

Where would you rank the "OBAMA IS A GAY MUSLIM SPY FROM KENYA" conspiracy theory?

 

Prove that mere information is a "thing of value" per the law.

And if it's really a felony, then why hasn't Trump Jr. been indicted? Is the amazing Mueller just waiting for the perfect moment to drop the hammer?

There was no felony, attempted or otherwise. All they did was lie, as politicians are wont to do. Hardly proof of some grand conspiracy.

Perhaps an investigation is warranted, but it's still based on a "conspiracy theory." And the investigation is hypocritical in its selectivity. The fact is, "colluding" with foreign powers to impact domestic elections is perfectly normal. Just as the most obvious example, the Israeli lobby is arguably the most influential lobby in the USA. They have FAR MORE influence over US elections than Russia ever could. But because the US political establishment are almost exclusively the creatures of the Israeli lobby, it's rarely discussed, let alone given its own grandiose investigation.

According to your interpretation of the law, they've admitted to committing a felony. That means they should be indicted, not investigated. In fact, your interpretation of the law would make the mere exchange of any information between a candidate and a foreigner a potential felony. So if a foreigner told Trump during the campaign, "I think you should concentrate more on the Rust Belt", that would technically qualify as a felony under your interpretation of the law.

 

What a bizarre statement. You think indictments come without investigations?

 

Now if only "people" would apply that standard consistently instead of just selectively trotting it out whenever a "conspiracy theory" happens to coincide with their feelings.

No, "we" do not know that. In fact, I haven't seen a shred of actual proof demonstrating this claim. All I've seen are allegations repeated thousands of times by establishment figures and their loyalists.

At least you admit that you do not know the answer to that question. But not knowing the answer to a question is not an adequate pretext to initiate a government investigation into possible wrongdoing. There has to be probable cause or, at the very least, reasonable suspicion. So where is it?

In order for me to rank it, we'd have to objectively define "conspiracy theory" and then establish a ranking system. As it stands, the definition of "conspiracy theory" is entirely nebulous. Based on the definitions I managed to elicit in another thread, it seems to mean "something I refuse to believe for whatever reason". Not sure how I can rank things according to such a subjective standard.

Personally, I find that particular "conspiracy theory" to be absurd. Trump had a chance to prove his claim and he came up with absolutely nothing. At least other "conspiracy theorists" have the guts to try and defend their ideas. But when Trump claimed to have found something out about Obama, he just skulked off after people demanded to see his proof.

Anyway, the point is not whether I personally agree with that particular "conspiracy theory" or not. Your or my personal opinion is a subjective standard and should not serve as the basis for what constitutes a "conspiracy theory". The point is that even though I personally find that "conspiracy theory" ridiculous, I don't see any reason why it shouldn't be discussed openly and freely. The best way to deal with bad ideas is to refute them. Censoring such ideas only lends them a mystique among its adherents. But much worse than that, it creates a precedent that can be applied to virtually any idea, opening the door to completely arbitrary forms of censorship. And that's exactly what has happened. That's why forums like this one have specific sections dedicated to "conspiracy theories", so they can take unconventional ideas and suppress them.

 

If someone has already admitted to a felony, as Yardmeat claims, then an investigation is unnecessary. Simply indict them based on their public confession. It's the easiest case the prosecutor will ever try.

 

So in spite of the fact that our intel agencies have outright stated this as a fact...you refuse to believe it until you personally see the classified information on which they base it?

Oh....

 

Nah, it came down to a Democrat lying under oath. Granted that might be expected and accepted behavior on the left but the law sees it differently...

 

A confession by itself is not enough for conviction. There must be an investigation and corroborating evidence.

Your claims are absurd