One question for Christians and one for Muslims neither can answer

I have one question I ask all Bible believing Christians and until now, ZERO have come up with a satisfactory answer. And that is this: If sexual intercourse outside of wedlock is a sin, why is it Yahweh who is the Creator, creates life through the act of a sin? That is babies born outside of marriage. It was the questions regarding sexuality that triggered my leaving Christianity.

Now here is a question no Muslim has addressed: Why would Allah cause stampedes during Hajj killing pilgrims? Since performing the Hajj is one of the most important and sacred of practices, could he not wait until after Hajj to take life away or even before? Why during it?

Of course I have many other reasons to doubt, but these are the two questions nobody seems to give me a direct answer to.

 

So let me get this straight: you think the immaculate conception was actual sex the way humans have it, right, with an anthropomorphic God that bears no resemblance to the God of the Bible?

 

He doesn't seem to me to be talking specifically about the immaculate conception. My guess is he's talking about any babies born outside of marriage.

 

thanks for sharing

 

Seems like no answer will be "satisfactory" for you, so why are you even trying? Is it just to see if you can push others away in this "test" of someones faith? Ours is not to question God, its to obey. Yes, I know that sounds like being a slave, but honestly I would rather be a slave to a benevolent Father than a freed orphan.

 

Aren’t you really just asking variations on the old “Why does God allow bad things to happen?”? There are various theological answers from different religious points of view to that question though I guess it’s up to the individual listener whether they consider them valid and meaningful or not.

 

If I were Christian, I would say: "Humans commit sins and go to hell if they don't regret, but that has nothing to do with Gods holy act of creating new life".

If I were Muslim, I would reply: "Allah moves those souls immediately to paradise who he loves most. Their probation on earth has come to an end. All others remain subject of yet more testing ..."

 

Correct.

The variation matters. Allowing bad things to happen is too general in terms as sometimes we go through tests and lessons learned. These variations point out that God is potentially guilty of breaking his own rules.

Best answers so far.

 

Thanks, Bro. But you should know that I'm an Atheist.

 

What "benevolent" father.....? How is he "benevolent"?

 

But you do seem to be talking about anything God is purported to have actively done himself, only things that people do which God apparently allows to happen. I still don't think you're asking anything new. Anyway, why would the rules a god lays down for people automatically apply to the god himself too?

 

If we claim to know WHAT God's rules are as organized religions do, It's important that those rules God imposes are imposed in a consistent manner (if that makes sense). Otherwise it throws his worshipers into confusion. If his worshipers are thrown into confusion, they begin to doubt the established rules.

As I pointed out in my latter example: If Allah makes it a rule that performing the hajj is vital to somebody's salvation and doing so pleases him immensely, why interrupt it?

As for the former: So there are consequences for sinning. But is not life a blessing? How can a baby outside of marriage be a blessing for any party involved including the baby if it is a sinful and miserable setup? It's inconsistent.

 

In that case I have to say "it's biology 101, dude".

 

Is that not under God's purview?

 

It would be and I’m sure they’d say the rules are consistent. The key point is that God doesn’t actively prevent people from breaking them. The idea is that we’re free to break the rules, we just have to answer for that at a later date.

Maybe the point is that the journey is more important than the destination?

I think you can make a logical distinction between the act that brought a child to being and the child themselves. That’s relevant in both theological and secular contexts.

 

Because people who want to live off the money you contribute on your sabbath tell you it is.

 

Nobody overspiritualizes things more than atheists.

It's kinda like gravity, God doesn't turn it off and on for no reason, and besides, you never know where the next Einstein is going to come from...if they let him live, that is.

 

Then God should be thanking the sinners or Satan for allowing him the opportunity to bring forth his blessing through an act he did not originally intend.

 

Isn't the idea of God having designed the universe according to some plan the spiritualisation? Greenleft just did them the great disservice of taking them on their word. Besides, it seems to me he was a Christian at the time.

I don't think the suggestion was that God should keep switching it off and on (although that could be one solution) as much as just set up a system that doesn't allow for the problem to begin with.

 

Muslims can have 4 wives, and sex with slaves. They are supposed to marry the girl, which consists of saying "I marry you" 3 times.
When they are done, they say " I divorce you" 3 times. If they have 3 wives, it leaves a loophole for hookers.

Allah doesn't cause stampedes, they are caused by the masses who can't control themselves.

 

So if I am to believe what you guys tell me, God would have had to create a universe where everybody had free will but wouldn't want to kill people and take their stuff but even if they did there would be no consequences, is that about right?

By the way, the reason extramarital sex is a sin is because it's literally a marriage and when marriages break up somebody always gets hurt.

 

I mean, that doesn't seem to me to be what we have been saying. There may very well be a logic linking what we have said to free will, or killing and stealing, but I don't think it's one that we have been saying.

It's more along the lines of why is the creating of life so closely linked to sinful activities? (Although that's my off-the-top-of-my-head short hand, I refer you to the OP for perhaps a better phrasing and explanation).

 

Then you have to spell it out for me, I think God leaves us some options, and one of them is to choose between the lady and the tiger.

 

Here you go.

 

I am sure that I am not the first one to tell you this, but there is an up side and a down side to everything. Misusing anything is a problem if you don't read the instructions.