Is it me or are liberals now routinely anti Christian and anti Semitic?

and enlightenment thinkers appeared from outer space? are developed naturally out of the progression from Greece to Rome through middle ages. Ever been to Vatican to see School of Athens fresco showing churches attempt to integrate learning from Greece forward. Isn't learning fun?

What ideas from Ancient Greece influenced enlightenment ...
https://philosophy.stackexchange.com/.../what-ideas-from-ancient-greece-influenced-e...
1 answer
Voltaire and Diderot, Enlightenment figures sure enough, venerated Socrates. What did they find in or get from him ? Crucially the Enlightenment celebrated ...

 

avoid what exactly. why so afriad to say? What do you learn from your fear?

 

and your point is?? Do you have any idea??

 

That christians were divided over slavery. I was responding to a post that said christians ended slavery. Some were, many were not.

 

so why so afraid to present your best example. what do you learn from your fear ?

 

but the Romans were not. We call this progress. Do you understand?

 

Again you cherry pick so you can mischaracterize. The part you left out states who ended slavery.

What a disingenuous joke.

 

Ever see the School of Athens Fresco? Do you think the reformation challenged church dogma. Now you have your answer. Do you feel used by your handlers?

 

Once again you cherry pick my post. Obviously the Greeks influenced the enlightenment .. It was the Church that closed the schools of Philosophy as soon as they got power which put off the enlightenment for 1000 years.

That you cherry pick this out of my post and then pretend you were the one that came up with it is Lame -O-Rama.

 

so then why so afraid to tell us who ended slavery? What do you learn from your constant fear?

 

No .. I feel used by you blubbering gibberish.

 

I call it a strange argument. The Romans were finished by 400. Slavery continued in Christian countries until the 1880's. Many deeply religious US southerners felt slavry was God's will. Many other Christians, like Wilberforce, were instrumental in ending it

 

oh? what schools did they close? Are you afraid to tell us? So the School of Athens fresco shows you they closed the schools?

 

and your point is?????

 

That christians were divided over slavery. I think god always opposed it. But his followers commonly did not. He works with what he has.

 

translation: I have to admit reformation challenged church dogma big time while I had said that was impossible .Sorry I don't know history!!

 

and Romans were not so we made progress under Christian thinking and eventually ended slavery. Now do you understand?

 

Take a look at the books burned and art destroyed in Florence when the Christian Church led by friar Savornola came to power. It nearly ended the Renaissance.

 

I told you who ended slavery. Another disingenuous joke of a post.

You are the one who is in constant fear - which is why you engage in avoidance and denial.

This is typical of someone under mind control. You take a child and tell that child - If you "question" or "do not believe" certain tenets of some holy book - the worst thing the mind can imagine will happen to you. Not just torture for a few days but "eternal torture".

This is a sophisticated mind control technique. The fear gets lodged deep in the subconscious of the adherent. When they come across information that conflicts with ingested dogma the fear response is triggered. Thinking about the bad thought could lead to eternal torture.

The adherent does not even realize what is happening .. but they know they must avoid the bad thought. Typical mechanisms are avoidance - just avoid the bad thought - denial, and demonization of the messenger which is another form of avoidance and denial.

How does it feel living in constant fear !!

 

Christianity did positively change the values of the ancient world.

 

I told you what schools they closed. They closed all the schools of Philosophy and in particular the 700 year old school of Platonic Philosophy.

That you want to try to deny this fact by yapping about a painting done by Raphael in the 16th century is just more laughable nonsense.

The fear must really be gripping for you to be grasping at such straws - followed by spouting of much unintelligible gibberish.

That's another common avoidance technique .. the "gibberish".. I was once talking to a Hari Krishna. The convo was going well - nice and friendly- but, I was backing him into a logical corner.

All of a sudden the fellow was dancing around chanting "Hari Hari, Rama Rama, Krishna Krishna". I was dumbfounded. One second we were having a pleasant conversation and the next he was in gibberish land.

This is known as a "thought stopping technique". They are implanted into the adherent by devious cult leaders.

 

I realize you do not know history but, what does this have to do with the elightenment thinkers coming up with a secular rational for individual liberty based on Philosophic reason.

Perhaps some quotes from the founding fathers are in order.

The authority of Gov't was to come from "consent of the governed" as opposed to "divine right/God" as was the case in the past.

It was these folks who were engaged promoting individual liberty... and what did they think of Christianity- having lived during a time when the Church had way too much power?

 

philosphers don't close schools of philosophy accept perhaps for those that are mistaken like Platonic or communist philosophy! Aristotle who might actually be the first Republican bofore Jesus survived quite well in the Chriistian philosophical world. Now do you understand?

By the sixth century AD, the re-founded Academy was a neo-Platonic foundation espousing the mystical doctrines of Plotinus and Proclus (411 – 485). It was also quite anti-Christian, counting the philosopher Porphyry (233 – 309) among its alumnae. He had written a lengthy anti-Christian diatribe which was condemned and now survives only in fragments. On the other hand, Porphyry’s commentary on Aristotle’s logic was a key part of the course in Christian schools throughout the Middle Ages and featured on the syllabus at the University of Paris. The contrasting fate of Porphyry’s works shows that it was possible and permissible for Christians to separate the wheat of useful writing from the chaff of polemic.

 

Good grief .. why are you talking about Porphyry who was prior to the Church getting power.

Why are you talking about the refounding of some philosophical Academy in the sixth century. Who refounded this academy and what does this have to do with the Church closing all the schools of Philosophy ?

Of course these folks refounding the schools were "anti christian" .. The nut job Christians were the ones that closed all the schools to begin with and were running around killing anyone who disagreed with their new doctrine - including other Christians but also anyone who expressed any idea that these nut jobs thought might reflect negatively on the church .. things such as logic and rational thought.

 

Nut Jobs who who taught the love of Jesus, banished the hatred of Rome, and accepted the reformation because they had no army, power, or will to resist intellectual development?


The universities developed in the large cities of Europe during this period, and rival clerical orders within the Church began to battle for political and intellectual control over these centers of educational life. The two main orders founded in this period were the Franciscans and the Dominicans. The Franciscans were founded by Francis of Assisi in 1209. Their leader in the middle of the century was Bonaventure, a traditionalist who defended the theology of Augustine and the philosophy of Plato, incorporating only a little of Aristotle in with the more neoplatonist elements.[5]:454 Following Anselm, Bonaventure supposed that reason can discover truth only when philosophy is illuminated by religious faith. Other important Franciscan writers were Duns Scotus, Peter Auriol, and William of Ockham.


Thomas Aquinas
By contrast, the Dominican order, founded by St Dominic in 1215 placed more emphasis on the use of reason and made extensive use of the new Aristotelian sources derived from the East, and Moorish Spain. The great representatives of Dominican thinking in this period were Albertus Magnus and (especially) Thomas Aquinas, whose artful synthesis of Greek rationalism and Christian doctrine eventually came to define Catholic philosophy. Aquinas placed more emphasis on reason and argumentation, and was one of the first to use the new translation of Aristotle's metaphysical and epistemological writing. This was a significant departure from the Neoplatonic and Augustinian thinking that had dominated much of early Scholasticism. Aquinas showed how it was possible to incorporate much of the philosophy of Aristotle without falling into the "errors" of the Commentator Averroes.