Income inequality in the US

Why do you say money is finite?

 

LOL. Of course it isn't. Whoever told you it is lied.

Look... in the United States alone, our GDP has grown thousands of percents since our inception. That isn't simply inflation.

If wealth was finite, that would be impossible and the only explanation for higher GDP would be inflation. We both know that isn't the case.

Daily... people create wealth. Nearly the entire tech industry did not exist in the 1930's. Before that, during the Industrial Revolution, inventions, efficiencies, and developments created wealth quite literally out of thin air. Hell, some guy created wealth by selling a rock in a box and calling it a pet.

Going even more into the weeds, all across the world, we are recovering fuels, minerals, and other items out of the ground that instantly increase the wealth that is available. Wind farms instantly created wealth be harvesting air currents and selling electricity.

No... to answer your question, wealth is no where near finite. Understanding this simple concept will change your entire outlook on economics.

Ah.. I found your problem. You have equated "money" with "wealth". Not nearly the same thing. Money is a unit of measurement, essentially a placeholder in the bartering system for wealth. In the bartering system, I give you a chicken and you give me wheat. Money is simply the means of accommodating that sometimes there is no wheat to give, yet you still need a chicken.

So you give me money as a place holder in that bartering system.

Wealth on the other hand is completely unlimited. If we were to colonize the moon, and sell real estate, instantly we have CREATED wealth, even if the money supply stays stagnant. In this case, the value of the dollar increases due to additional wealth in the market it measures.

Our government however is constantly printing new money to keep up with this economic growth. When they print more than the economic growth, we get inflation, and when the economy grows faster than the money is printed, we get deflation.

These are really basic economic principles.

If the left really only sees wealth in the terms of dollars.... this explains a lot in why their agenda makes absolutely no sense.

 

And... what happens in your example when somebody takes glass and plastic and creates a cell phone to sell in the market?

How much currency was floating around when the US was founded? Still the same amount floating around now? No? Why?

 

The federal reserve introduces new money into circulation, which further devalues all currency current in existence.

Finite resource, it’s why they had to move off the gold standard

 

Give it up, you lost that debate posts ago.

The gold standard was a finite resource and when the dollar was released from the finite gold, then gold went to its true value in dollars, $35/oz to well over $700/oz in a matter of a few years.

Steve

 

If you believe there are an unlimited amount of dollars in circulation you are a fool.
Wealth is harder to quantify but it too is limited by the market and currency.

 

I didn't say there is an "unlimited amount of dollars in circulation."

I will say I agree with others here. The economy is NOT STATIC. It's dynamic and growing everyday. Get a grip on reality.

Steve

 

'workers'?

You have taken poetic liberties with the word, and applied your own pathos-laden understanding. I merely refer to the work ethic. The Chinese are famous for theirs. They are also highly unlikely to be obese. IOW, they're extraordinarily self-disciplined, compared to Americans.

And that's the difference between sinking or swimming.

 

Then become one of the rich guys. I went to college raising two kids on my own (back then women did not have to pay child support, only men did). I cleaned off Kroger's day old bread shelves and the manage would sell it to me at 15 cents on the dollar. I remember having to scratch 30 cents for a stick of margarine to feed the kids. I now am a millionaire. I worked like a dog when I was poor, sleep was a luxury, A night out was rare. So why should I feel guilty. I didn't waste my money on drugs, alcohol, vacations, new cars, fancy houses and cloths.

In America, you want something, you can get it. It is just a price of working and determination that counts. YOu can be lazy and poor, or work hard (and be smart with your money) and eventually live well. Why should I pay for you and your stupidity. Let Darwin rule. In America, you choose, you win or lose.

 

In addition to its direct point, the above highlights another more subtle point that the gov-edu-union-contractor-grantee-trial lawyer-MSM Complex tries to hide with its wealth inequality resentment propaganda.

The poor, middle class and rich in the U.S. are largely the exact same people, just at different points in time. Most people start poor, with varying degrees of parental support, but poor nonetheless in terms of "financial wealth." While being educated, learning a trade or starting a business, people make voluntary choices to trade what meager wealth they do have into investments in their future... voluntarily. A young person who just bought their first house, car, etc. after graduating from college is in debt, but do they have -0- wealth? Of course not. The things they trade their time and $$ for -are- wealth, yet are excluded from the hack work on "wealth inequality."

Of course there are a significant group of people who remain poor, but that has nothing to do with wealth inequality, and near everything to do with poor choices and bad leftist policy. You can give a substance abuser or profligate spender 10,000 a month, and they will have nothing by the end of it... every month. We can start a thread on the dangers of intergenerational government dependence, a very REAL crisis, but the intent of these types of threads and their appeals to wealth and income inequality is to HIDE those issues and DEFLECT, PROJECT from the real cause of many of our ills, overlarge, overpowered GOVERNMENT, its VOTE BUYING BAD POLICY, and the parasites that feed at innumerable troughs (welfare only a very small part of that) paid for by all of us taxpayers.

And to reiterate, "wealth" is a very fluid abstraction. Many people can and do say their greatest "wealth" is their family, health, friends, education, faith, lifestyle, hobbies and possessions associated with those... yet none of those are included in the typical Complex hack definition. In a very common sense way, accumulating $$ or shares of stock, for most people, isn't what life is about or what their true wealth is.

So given that it's a very imprecise abstraction, why do they use "wealth" in all their government and related advertisements about wealth inequality? Why don't they use some more precise, useful measure, such as "what % has this quality of life enhancing good or service?" (as in the video I linked). Simple, the aim is to FOOL us and ENRICH themselves, propaganda, not legitimate information.

 

Nicely put. Welfare creates drug addiction, alcohol, crime

 

Despite Returdlicker claims to the contrary and the tax cuts salary increases were higher during Obamas second term than have occurred since.We have RECORD credit card debt,auto loan debt,mortgage debt and student loan debt and housing sales have been declining ever since Dirty Donald took office.Tax cuts only helped business and the wealthy and did nothing for rank and file.

 

So what?? There is that wealth and success envy. Don't worry what others have or don't have. That is a childish view anyways. And I got a nice tax cut, and I am not that weathy, still working full time at 68 years of age.
You had the same opportunity as the rich and wealthy to be rich and wealthy. Instead, too many people end up poor and whiney due to their own life actions. You only have YOU to blame for your failure or success. Are you not happy how your life turned out??? Look in the mirror to find the problem with your failure.
Record credit card debt, look at your own spending and wants issues. It is not the rich people fault, you are just being immature and failing to control your own wants you cannot afford.

 

IF wealth (money) was finite, then what we have today would be the same as we had 100 years ago, just distributed differently.
As far as the actual tangible part, money is now simply a printing operation. How much we physically print is an arbitrary choice determined by government.

Factually, money is only the representative symbol of genuine value and productivity; the purpose of money is to make the exchange of valuable things we produce easier than bartering our actual goods or services. Raising bumper crops, building better cars, houses, inventing better tools, solving problems, doing anything of value- builds wealth. That is productivity of value, not the accumulation of money. Without the value of goods and services that money is used to represent, money would have no value at all.

There are virtually no goods available in Venezuela right now, so no amount of money can buy them. Inflation rate is 46,000%, meaning money is worthless and no longer represents value. However, food, tires, fuel, tangible things are worth a great deal- they always have value, but they have exceptional value right now because they are in very short supply... but a wheelbarrow full of money has no value at all. They are not in need of more money- they are in need of tangible goods and services, which they aren't producing.

If a person produces more value they become wealthy; if they produce little, they become poor.
No different than those who tend their garden properly eating well, and those who let it languish going hungry.
If everyone tended their garden well- they would all be eating well.

Productivity is a choice; the limitations of it are made by ourselves, imposed on ourselves. The quantity of physical money in existence at any one time does not change that.

 

It is not worse because it was not bad to begin with.

Income inequality is nothing more than something irrelevant to whine about.

No one can give a coherent or logical explanation of how it is a bad thing. The fact is income inequality harms no one and hurts nothing.

I make a living and support myself. If you make twice as much money as me how does it harm me? Explain. If it does me no harm then by extension it does me no harm if you are a billionaire. No one suffers because of this inequality people are obsessed with.

The entire issue is simply a cheap way to whine about wealthy people while trying to sound intelligent and it is a failure

 

So, you still haven't explained the GDP growth that exceeds inflation.

Look, you want to be dense here so you can ignorantly push your agenda.. fine. But you are wrong. Wealth is constantly created.

 

Your life sounds very similar to mine. Self-sacrifice and hard work do pay off.

 

ALL are personal choices.

I know people who don't have credit cards because they fear spending what they don't have. I know people who've never had car finance because they'd rather save up for a crappy looking but reliable car, than be in debt for a shiny new one. I know people who sacrifice 'fun money' for years and years to pay off a mortgage as quickly as possible. I know people who, understanding that a college degree comes with a huge debt, sensibly choose a course which will allow them to easily repay it. They DON'T incur $50k in study debt for a degree in Gender Studies, IOW.

 

Huh, you are writing the story of my life.

 

And mine. Hence 'knowing' people

 

There is a little earned pride in it.

 

People should earn the market value for their work. No more, no less.

And if someone earns more than us, we shouldn't be envious and demand part of their salary.

 

I love income inequality. It means there are people who are working hard and others who have something to learn from them. Long live income inequality!!!!!

 

People who complain about income inequality should give us their plan on how they would make income equal.

 

by taking yours, and giving it to ... themselves.