Iran Is Ripe for Regime Change

Non sequitur straw..........man.

The US government returned the money that it seized from Iran after the shah was overthrown.

Of course it does.....that the intent of that kind of forum post.

^^^The facts in clear context^^^. Thanks.

 

Thats fake news, even after pipeline is done, we would get only 23% of energy from russia. Putin has never bullied or threatened Germany, we are a league above them. Their economy is tiny compared to ours.

If Russia shuts down the gas, we get supplies from Scotland, Denmark and Netherlands. But Russia would get no money anymore. We are their only big customer.

USA only wanted sell us their gas. Its 3 times more expensive than russian gas. If you are so worried, why dont you lower your offer to the russian price?

 

Good answer - both in calling Trump on his blatant lie about German energy and the economics of these potential deals.

Trump seems totally opposed to every deal in the entire world! NAFTA, WTO, NATO, UN, TransPacific, trade wars with everyone including our closest allies.

He seems hell bent on isolating the US from the rational world.

And, our Republican party uses its majority power to back him in everything he does!

 

One cubic meter russian gas is 1.8 cent. One cubic meter american lng gas is 3.3 cent. Nothing in the world would justify to make the deal with usa.

 

My pleasure.

Many people who are not on the Left only hear the Left version of the overthrow of Mossadegh. This version is usually essentially true, but is interlarded with the usual Evil-Amerikkka stuff, including speculation about American motives -- i.e. to seize Iran's oil at the behest of American oil companies, classic imperialism. So unless you're already on the Left and pre-disposed to believe the worst about the American government, you dismiss it.

The best material I've read about the 1953 coup was in Daniel Yergin's book, The Prize, all about the struggle for oil in the 20th Century and how it has driven so many historical developments. The role of American oil companies was a surprise for me -- it was not what you would expect. Also the timidity of the Tudeh Party -- Mossadegh needed a Durruti Column but didn't have one. An overlooked aspect of the whole thing is the reactionary mullahs of Iran, who would have been a problem for any democratic secular government, had Mossadegh been allowed to remain in office.

Now many people on the Right are becoming open to re-thinking American foreign policy. It's a shame that so many on the Left now seem bent on validating it.

 

Let the Germans use the money they'll save buying cheap Russian gas to rebuild a credible Wehrmacht, then you can kiss the Yankees good bye. Eveyone's happy. (Well, maybe not the Belgians but you're surely not going to do that again!)

 

The Right has never been more averse to policy in more than a decade.

Nothing going on today from the Right resembles policy - either in process or in product.

 

Please remember that the Right accepted Russia and Putin setting policy without there even being a record of what was said available to those who work on policy.

 

The average Republican voter -- and the average Democratic voter -- has no idea about how foreign policy is made or implemented. Probably Trump's supporters feel that he couldn't be a tool of the Russians so they don't look into the details of what's going on.

I myself have no idea of what Nixon did in China, what happened with Russia under Reagan, etc. I just assume the leaders shake hands, mouth some platitudes, agree on some big point, and then their minions work out the details. I also have no idea about the reality of any Trump/Russia connections. If pushed, I might assume he's as much their tool as Yeltsin was our tool. One thing's for sure: he's too stupid and impulsive to be a good tool. If they do have some sort of clandestine relationship with this man, they must be yearning for the days of Alger Hiss.

 

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CIA begins weapons delivery to Syrian rebels - Washington Post
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/cia-begins...
Watch video · September 11, 2013 -- State Department of vehicles and other gear — a flow of material that marks a major escalation of the U.S. role in Syria’s civil war. The arms shipments, which are limited to light weapons and other munitions that can be tracked, began arriving in Syria at a moment of heightened tensions over threats by President Obama to order missile strikes to punish the regime ...

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Hillary Clinton and the Syrian Bloodbath | HuffPost
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/jeffrey-sachs/hillary-clinton-and...
A coup d'etat invites a civil war, the kind that now wracks Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, and Syria. It invites a hostile international response, such as Russia's backing of its Syrian ally in the face of the CIA-led operations. The record of misery caused by covert CIA operations literally fills volumes at this point. What surprise, then, the …

 

Each of those former presidents had a full complement of policy support behind their meetings.

We knew in advance what Nixon's China policy was about. It was NOT concocted in some back room between two people.

None of those former presidents would have allowed such a meeting as the Trump-Putin meeting, because it gives too much power to the other side to make statements about what was discussed.

Today, Putin can say he and Trump talked about anything he wants to claim they talked about. And, he HAS done that already.

That was just the problem with the meeting. The larger problem is that Trump has no clear policy. Even his own people don't know what he's going to do next, nor are they in a position to guide his actions.

 

What's your point?

 

Yes, I agree. If Trump really is a Russian tool, they've done a horrible job of grooming him.

 

I'm not so sure I get your point here.

They picked a guy who is inclined to ignore all his own policy people and do (or at least try to do) whatever he himself decides. So, we get ideas like handing our ambassador over to the GRU for questioning, no pushback on Russian attacks on US democracy (either in words or in direction to his executive branch), etc.

These are absurd to the point of being laughable, other than that it is the USA that is losing. And, it is what this president is spending time on!!!


Every former president would be fully backstopped by a qualified and engaged policy staff.

 

Yes, that sounds like Trump. It was the reason I would have voted for the Hildabeast if I had voted. But the main argument seems to be that Trump is actually, in some way, compromised by the Russians. That is, they tell him what to do. That's not entirely implausible, but if it is so, they must wish they had someone more competent.

 

Well, they had limited choices. Even WE had limited choices.

They have appeared to have gotten the best option they could have hoped for in the last 20 years, given that they had to limit themselves to major party primary candidates.

 

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Meanwhile the rest the M.E oil rich countries continue to burn off natural gas because they have no viable economical method to pipe it to Europe and Putin goes laughing to the bank. That is the main reason Putin has allied himself with Syria. He can stop the pipeline(s) and hold power over Europe at the same time with the treat of shutting down the life line if countries don't come into line with his demands.

 

Germany's 7%, at a time when they have other options, is not something that could possibly cause them to be under any thumbs.

I think you got hoodwinked by Trump's bald faced lie (or total ignorance?) on the subject of German energy.

 

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So your impression without any evidence that Pres. Trump walked into a meeting with Putin without a plan, or any knowledge of what he's doing. Certainly you are of the same opinion of Mike Pompeo the Secretary of State.
You forget your hand wringing and cries of a Third World War before Trump met with Kim Jung Un. The way I look at the Helsinki meeting is that perhaps Trump didn't succeed in all he wanted and that is why he was so glum at the press meeting. Then again maybe the trip to the UK, NATO and the G-7 tired him out a little.
All in all IMO, I think that Pres. Trump is doing a far better job that Obama did within his first two years, while Obama had a lot less agitation from the Left.

 

What the hell do you care what the Iranians do in their own country? America has enough of it's own problems, put down the neocon kool-aid

 

His own people have been shocked at what came out of the meeting and had no idea what Trump would talk to Putin about before the meeting.

The NK meeting was a 100% total bust and that's no surprise given the crap job of preparing for the meeting and the ridiculous claims of what would be gained.

So far, Trump has been a bust with every nation he's met with. And, for pretty much the same reasons.

All we have is weakened alliances and a trade war with both allies and those who are not allies.

And, there is absolutely ZERO possibility of blaming this on the Left.

 

No, Putin proved his methods when he shut the fuel in mid Winter 2009 when he cut the fuel pipeline to six countries.
See:
( https://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/07/world/europe/07gazprom.html).
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(http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...gy-crisis-Russia-cuts-gas-supply-Ukraine.html)


BTW whatever happened to the original subject "Iran is ripe for regime change". Shouldn't we be discussing the internal strive of the people in Iran. It appears that Leftists are unable to maintain a straight line of thought, or is deflection their artform.

 

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Are you attacking me for posting something that is currently happening in the Middle East? I care about what happens all round me even if it's happening in Asia, the Middle East, Europe or at home. I have empathy even for you because of your surly pugilistic attitude toward me. Pity you can't start a dialogue today unless it's a verbal or written assault on your adversaries. And Yes!, America does have a lot of it's own problems but the world doesn't stop in it's tracks because of it.

 

I'm pretty sure the Iran question got answered.

We've moved into the trolling section of this thread's life.

 

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Then you admit to violating Rule 5... Deflecting and derailing the subject of the post. Hmm..., typical of Leftists. Iran is still a destabilizing issue in the Middle East.