Single payer is a death sentence for seniors

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by logical1, Sep 23, 2018.

  1. logical1

    logical1 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    If some how the voters return democrats to power, and they push thru their single payer health care, seniors are doomed.

    Single payer healthcare will cost hundreds of billions of dollars. The money can only go so far. That means far less money for seniors when they really need medical care. It will most certainly lead to death panels and the withdrawl of medical services to older citizens. They will be told you are too old and it would cost too much to take care of you!!!!!!!

    Every single senior in the country needs to vote republican in Nov!!!!
     
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  2. squidward

    squidward Well-Known Member

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    Read Ezekial Emanuel's Complete Lives System.
    He was tapped by Obama to head the committee on resource allocation under the ACA.

    Everyone gets a score based on age, comorbidities, life expectancy, etc. . Resources are allocated according to score. It'll be awesome.
     
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  3. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    IF single payer is a "death sentence" for the elderly - why do countries with single payer health care have a longer average life span?????

    [​IMG]
     
  4. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    You mean like an APACHE 3 score that is already utilised in ICU's across the world??
     
  5. squidward

    squidward Well-Known Member

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    Come to the US. Apache scores don't dictate resources allocation
    Doctors quit when the family says so.

    Why do you think it's so expensive?
    The dolts think they can get all they want, when they want and how they want it. They think nothing will change, except the price when gov takes over
     
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  6. logical1

    logical1 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Of course the biggest reason is MOST ANYTHING the government touches goes to hell in a handbasket and is shot thru with politicians lining their pockets!!!
     
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  7. 61falcon

    61falcon Well-Known Member

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    We have corruption now with our congress getting kickbacks from lobbyists and high paying jobs in the drug industry when they leave congress.We see doctors receiving kickbacks for prescribing drugs,our present medical mess is brimming over with corruption.Where else in life are we expected to buy something which we have no preconceived idea of it's final cost.Hospitals and doctors should be required by law to post prices for every procedure and every patient should be given options before medications are prescribed.Right now patients are completely in the dark.
     
  8. rcfoolinca288

    rcfoolinca288 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Republicans want to slash Medicare. You do realize who will most be impacted don't you? That's right, seniors.
     
  9. TomFitz

    TomFitz Well-Known Member

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    For that matter, why is it that life expectancy in the US jumped when the US adopted Medicare, which IS single payer health insurance.

    This narratlve is intended to scare seniors and divide the country by age. In truth, countries with single payer health insurance pay less than half per person as Americans do.
     
  10. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    OMG .. sorry, no.

    We've had nationalised healthcare in this country for decades, and there is absolutely nothing like 'death panels' - now or ever. When healthcare is not dollar driven, care is even handed and without ulterior motive. I've spent huge amounts of time in our public hospitals, and seen (and been involved in) very frail and elderly people given just as complete care as a child is given.

    Americans have a very odd notion of what universal healthcare actually is. It's either that, or you guys simply don't like the limitations involved. It's really a shame, because the limitations are all in areas of the non-critical. IOW, costs are only cut in the non-urgent, and non-medical areas of healthcare. Shared hospital rooms and bathrooms, long waits for elective surgery, etc etc. If you can't handle those minor inconveniences for the sake of free high quality ESSENTIAL healthcare, then you'll be happy paying huge premiums (for slightly worse - in terms of mortality - care).
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2018
  11. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    AND have better outcomes.
     
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  12. Daniel Light

    Daniel Light Well-Known Member

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    Vote Republican so they can revoke the pre-existing condition clause and really screw us over.
     
  13. Margot2

    Margot2 Banned

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    All seniors already have single payer.. They have for years and years.
     
  14. Margot2

    Margot2 Banned

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    That's so ignorant.. Single payer will reduce overhead by 30% immediately.

    Only Sarah Palin is dumb enough to talk about death panels.
     
  15. squidward

    squidward Well-Known Member

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    And their elderly do not get the end of life care ours do.
    But as long as our elderly are good with being too old to have their emergency laparotomy for acute bowel obstruction........
     
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  16. nopartisanbull

    nopartisanbull Well-Known Member

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    Quote: Why do countries......

    Bowerbird, here's another "Why?"

    Trump to Australian Prime Minister: 'You have better health care than we do'


    President Trump met with Australian Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull where he praised the country's health-care system. (The White House)


    Trump's own words;

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...nge-payer-health-care/?utm_term=.ae8bd4f511db

     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2018
  17. rcfoolinca288

    rcfoolinca288 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Ouch!
     
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  18. logical1

    logical1 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Care to talk about how socialized medicine killed two babies in England????
     
  19. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    And even THINKING about touching it is political suicide

    Same with other countries with universal health care - it is a push/pull. Politicians try to push healthcare out of the public arena and the public pull them back towards it every single time. The Pollies cut corners - that impacts care - the voters start screaming AND voting for the guy promising not to cut corners and next thing you know......
     
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  20. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    You want to tell us about it? I notice you are not linking to any specific case because the last time someone did that on this forum they got owned - seemed the child was actually flown to the USA for the experimental treatment all at the UK governments expense
     
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  21. The Don

    The Don Well-Known Member

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    I'm not sure anyone has ever argued that single payer healthcare ever completely eliminates medical errors or medical malpractice. I'm also not sure that anyone is arguing that single payer gives better results than another model where the individual has access to (near) limitless funds.

    What it does do is to deliver a much better service to the population as a whole (as measured by life expectancy and/or healthy life expectancy, infant mortality and so on) at a significantly lower cost.

    Anyone getting their knickers in a twist over "death panels" is clearly under the misapprehension that insurance companies would authorise a treatment or procedure regardless of cost or anticipated outcome. "Death Panels" are already convening on a daily basis in the US.
     
  22. Battle3

    Battle3 Well-Known Member

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    No. The Complete Lives System rations health care resources based on a persons current and future value to society, and the investment society has placed in a person. It was proposed as a component of obamacare.

    Very young children (under 2 years old) have a low weight because they contribute nothing to society and have not received any training or education, they require care (investment), so they are a total burden on society. Their loss represents a small lose to society. At 2 years old, a person has a 25% score. At 10 years old, 50%. The score translates roughly to mean your chance of receiving significant medical care.

    Maximum value is in the 21-33 range, the score is about 100%.

    Old people also have a very low score because they are past their working years, and tend to have medical requirements, so they are a a burden on society. At 50 years old, the score is 75%. By 60 years old, 50%. At 65 years, 25%.

    If a person has a criminal record, is uneducated, unemployed, disabled, or anything which increases his "cost" to society, then the score is lowered.

    Emmanual Ezekial (brother to Rahm Emmanual, who was obamas chief of staff) was the big proponent. Here is his graph.

    [​IMG]
     
  23. Battle3

    Battle3 Well-Known Member

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    Average life span is almost meaningless. The standard deviation of the "average life span" for the USA is 15 years, in Sweden its 13 years. In fact, the standard deviation of average life span in developed countries is far greater than the differences in avg life span between countries.

    There are also factors which have little to do with healthcare. In the USA, the leading health risk is cars. Thats why insurance companies ask if a person smokes, drinks, and how much he drives.
     
  24. MAGA

    MAGA Well-Known Member

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    Yeah. Everyone should wait until they get sick or have an accident to purchase insurance.
     
  25. TomFitz

    TomFitz Well-Known Member

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    Care to talk about the fact that infant mortality rates in the US are higher than they are in any first world country with socialized medicine?

    No, I guess not.

    You'd rather quote individual ancedotes that don't reflect overall performanace, because you can't make you case on either cost or quality with the overall health statistics.

    So, you have to take obscure stories about mistakes as representative.

    Of course, in the US, such stories seldom are reported anywhere. Ours is a private system, and there is no accountability at all. Evidently you prefer it that way. Pay more, get less.
     

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