I have always been on the side of the working man and woman

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by JakeStarkey, Oct 14, 2018.

  1. Kode

    Kode Well-Known Member

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    The GOP may not be a truly fascist party at this time, but they are certainly morphing themselves and positioning themselves to easily and quickly fill that role. Their complete rejection of traditional compromise in the interest of the nation, their obvious drive and intention to create a one-party dictatorship at any cost, their fully willing readiness to lie and spin falsehoods, and their defense of a horribly unfit "president" as he praises dictators and alienates allies makes the GOP the most likely political source of the next major fascist government in this world.
     
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  2. spiritgide

    spiritgide Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    And, those observations are not without merit. Still- the premise is true, the employer is a customer of the employee, buying his services. He will pay more for those who provide the more valuable services- and he is looking for the best value and product for the price, just as the employee does when he shops and is the customer. The adversary nature of the relationship is not good for either side. Ideally, this would be something where both would move towards the center, and if so- both would be better off.

    An aspect of the employee viewpoint is that many people look at business as if it were a social service that should accommodate their personal problems. For example I know of a machinist in a small shop who called in and couldn't come to work because his baby sitter didn't show up. While that is a legitimate issue from the employee point of view- if it causes the machine shop to be late on a delivery, it can become an expensive problem for them as well, and they don't feel they should be the buffer that absorbs the problems of the employee.

    One of the other effects of the problems of relying on employees is that automation becomes very desireable. Robots don't call in sick, don't get overtime, and produce high quality and consistency. Even phone calls are being automated, as is tech support. With some companies, getting through to a live person may be near impossible. Even the average tech support person is sitting at a computer, entering your problems in a program and reading back the instructions on the screen- costing far less than a skilled tech person.
    I know as a business man that high-quality customer service is very important, but as companies get larger, that is harder and harder to deliver- because the qualities of help available is dropping. We have a widening gap between the highly skilled and critical people who are sought after and the best paid, and the mid-level skills which used to be common, but are now replaceable with automation, IT, Robots, etc. That is the source of the widening pay gap; we are losing those mid-level skilled people.

    Business will always look for ways to improve it's efficiency and profit- that is the mission that is critical to success. They simply cannot afford to change their prime objective and become a social service. At the same time, all businesses look for certain qualities that any person can provide, and those things present opportunity for employees. Even if you have no experience or skills, if you are eager, honest, present the things the business knows it can work with and turn into productivity- you are head and shoulders above the average applicant. I have a son-in-law that started as a welders helper at 18. A month ago, the head-hunters called on him again and made him another better offer he couldn't refuse. He was already managing a plant for an international company, but the new one gave him 25K to sign on, $190K salary, car allowance, profit sharing and stock options. He's 50, has only a HS education. The door is still open for those who can deliver the goods- and there is more opportunity that ever.
     
  3. Adfundum

    Adfundum Moderator Staff Member Donor

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    Personally, I think Trump is one of the most disgusting phonies ever to have held the office. I dislike his personality, I dislike the way he tries to threaten and butt in to elections, especially to attack representatives who don't show loyalty to him. I dislike his tactless, playground bully style of diplomacy. I dislike his constant divisiveness and my way or the highway approach to the half of the country who did not vote for him. I dislike how he interjected false patriotism into sports and made everything political. I despise his narcissism and egocentric approach to almost every aspect of his job. I despise his manipulation of the media and his attacks on media that does not worship and salivate over him. I could go on, but . . .

    As for Obama, I thought he was arrogant. I didn't like many of his policies. I didn't like the way he quickly fell into a business as usual approach to government that echoed Bush's term. The failings of the Democratic party were obvious when Hillary was forced to step aside for Obama's bid, then Bernie got forced out for Hillary's bid. All that stinks of corruption and is terribly un-democratic.

    I'd be a third party fanboy if there was one that had coherent policies, but I haven't seen evidence of that. I threw away my vote last election by writing in Ralph Nader (for no political reason other than I'm sick of the pathetic excuse of a political system we're floundering in these days.

    I'm highly critical of Trump, mostly because he represents to me all that is evil in the human psyche, not because I was a Clinton or Obama supporter. [/rant]
     
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  4. Adfundum

    Adfundum Moderator Staff Member Donor

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    I don't necessarily disagree with you, but I do think that you get what you pay for. If you're only paying minimum or barely above minimum wage, you should expect no better than minimum labor. I do realize all that's involved in running a business. I worked for myself for a couple of years and that sort of thing wasn't for me. Right out of high school, I got a job in a steel mill. The pay was good and we worked a lot of overtime, but the company had an arcane system of paying bonus for production. Mind you, a bonus is a good thing, but it never paid enough to make it worth the extra sweat. I was talking to one of the guys in the office, and he wanted to know why employees didn't like the bonus system. After some back and forth, he asked what I thought would appeal to the workers, and I asked if they had ever thought of some kind of profit-sharing deal that offered a quarterly bonus indexed to company profits. My thought was that if the workers felt they could actually realize a "profit" for their labor, they'd feel more inclined to put out the extra effort to make the company more profitable. I thought it would make employees feel more like a part of the company. Alas, the words "profit sharing" shuts down all rational thought and I was called a communist (even though I thought it was anything but communist). How is siphoning off fees for investments not profit sharing? Anyway...
     
  5. Derideo_Te

    Derideo_Te Well-Known Member

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    Wrong!

    I am an Independent which means that I don't have any "party" to vote for.
     
  6. Derideo_Te

    Derideo_Te Well-Known Member

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    Too bad that the GOP and your beloved BLOTUS check most of the fascist boxes on the list.

    https://rense.com/general37/fascism.htm

    https://www.indy100.com/article/don...arning-signs-fascism-holocaust-museum-7554621

     
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  7. JakeStarkey

    JakeStarkey Well-Known Member

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    The strangest post overnight was "I'm not a Trump guy, but he is much more restrained than the corrupt Obama was." That makes the discerning reader's eyes goggle.
     
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  8. PrincipleInvestment

    PrincipleInvestment Well-Known Member

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    tenor.gif
    "President Obama ... US GDP is in the toilet. And unemployment is sky high. What's your response to criticism of your job killing economic policies"?
     
  9. JakeStarkey

    JakeStarkey Well-Known Member

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    "President Obama ... US GDP is in the toilet. And unemployment is sky high. What's your response to criticism of the GOP's job killing economic policies"?
     
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  10. pol meister

    pol meister Well-Known Member

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    Your obsession with demonizing anything that doesn't comport with your imaginary utopia of far-left liberal/socialist dogma prevents you from seeing reality. You live in a world that does not exist; and the world that does exist, you cannot see it.

    The only thing in America today that resembles fascism is the socialist agenda of the far left and their "antifa" renegades, and you are a proud supporter of them. The only thing in America today that resembles the holocaust is Planned Parenthood, and you are a proud supporter of it.

    If fascism is what you fear, then you are your own worst enemy.
     
  11. Texas Republican

    Texas Republican Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I’ve always been on the side of the free market.

    It provides the most benefit to the most people.
     
  12. JakeStarkey

    JakeStarkey Well-Known Member

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    fascism is the intermingling of government and business at the workers' expense, and that is all Republicanism
     
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  13. pol meister

    pol meister Well-Known Member

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    So you should be a Trump supporter then, since he's a populist seeking to free the working class from government impediments; and doing a pretty good job of it as well. As to Republicans, they're at least partially populist, mostly capitalist; whereas Democrats are socialists masquerading as populists.

    You need to rethink your political allegiances.
     
  14. 61falcon

    61falcon Well-Known Member

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    Mines closed because coal was no longer a fuel of choice, businesses moved offshore because of greed motivated executives and corporate boards.The rank and file employees who lost their jobs were just collateral damage to the wealthy.
     
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  15. JakeStarkey

    JakeStarkey Well-Known Member

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    Trump cares not at all for the worker, pol meister.
     
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  16. Adfundum

    Adfundum Moderator Staff Member Donor

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    Are tariffs part of the free market, or are the a government control on the economy?
     
  17. doombug

    doombug Well-Known Member

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    You support the neo-marxists over Republicans. You are not for the working men and women. Stop pretending.
     
  18. Adfundum

    Adfundum Moderator Staff Member Donor

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    Hitler used the idea of socialism to lure in the working class. German fascism was a system that exploited labor to create weapons of war. It was in no way a workers party. Low wages could not be overcome because labor unions were outlawed. Slave labor gradually made it's way in to manufacturing and upper income business class grew rich.
     
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  19. Texas Republican

    Texas Republican Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    There should be no tariffs.
     
  20. Derideo_Te

    Derideo_Te Well-Known Member

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    :roflol:

    Ironic PROJECTION duly noted and ignored since reality denial is so glaringly obvious.
     
  21. Adfundum

    Adfundum Moderator Staff Member Donor

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    I have to first say that I'm not smart enough to state too many opinions about economics, but I have to agree with you about the tariffs--at least to a point. I reserve the right to think that there may be a time when tariffs are necessary, but I can't go with the idea of using them as a political weapon.
     
  22. Texas Republican

    Texas Republican Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    And they shouldn't be used as a source of revenue. Starve the government beast.

    I'd be for a tariff if it was targeted, limited, and logical. But the burden of proof is on those who want to keep or enact a tariff, not on those who want to eliminate tariffs.
     
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2018
  23. pol meister

    pol meister Well-Known Member

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    Neither fascism or socialism serve the long-term interests of a free society, it only empowers government at the expense of society. Yet, the Democratic party keeps rolling out the trough of socialism over-and-over-again. A trough where no one ever gets ahead without someone else falling even farther behind.

    The beauty of capitalism is that it's not imposed upon anyone; all come to it by free will, and all prosper by its success, even the government, though they're seldom smart enough to realize it.
     
  24. Adfundum

    Adfundum Moderator Staff Member Donor

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    Yeah, but the problem is that we have broad and not very consistent definitions of such things. What kind of socialism, fascism, and capitalism are we talking about. For many, socialism is just another word for communism. For others, it just the inclusion of programs like Social Security and Medicare. For some, capitalism is selfish greed that puts profit ahead of all other concerns. For others, capitalism is a system that benefits all and is self-correcting.
     
  25. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    Yes, the ENORMOUS faux pas. Hard to miss!

    That OP had me chortling loud enough to frighten the dog.
     

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