Naval Sea Battle In Azov Sea - Russia captured 3 Ukrainian Ships

Uh huh. The silly EU just wouldn't listen to generous good guy Putin.

And why couldn't Ukraine have been in both agreements? Obviously there were much better ways of handling the situation than forcing Ukraine to go one way or the other, and oh yeah, trying to quadruple their gas price. And then sending the Green Men in to steal Crimea and sending in thugs and arms to cut off the eastern regions, initially with the aim of gobbling them up as well.

It's quite simple. For Putin, Ukraine can either be a de facto part of his new Russian empire, or it can be annexed and made a proper part of Russia.

 

I was watching FOX news during Maidan, and the announcer had a map of where the protesters were coming from. I believe it was Shepard Smith, and he said he was surprised to find that some of the protesters were Poles and not Ukrainians.

Didn't Nuland say she gave $5 billion to NGO's and weren't the broadcasts coming from Poland? Would it be so far fetched to assume that some of the money went to train militants in Poland as well? Anyway it probably came from RT, Sputnik or Fort Russ since I favor them.

As for uniting with Russia, here's the latest from Lugansk:

On November 19, the deputies of the third convocation of the People’s Council of the LPR unanimously elected Denis Miroshnichenko as chairman of the parliament of the Republic. All 50 deputies voted for his candidacy.

The new head of the Lugansk parliament told our Novorossiya correspondent about his vision of the future of the LPR, the main tasks in his post, and the prospects for relations with Ukraine.
​

You can find his program for the future in the following links.

https://www.fort-russ.com/2018/11/n...-out-the-program-for-lugansk-future-part-one/

https://www.fort-russ.com/2018/11/n...arliament-lays-out-program-part-two-of-three/

https://www.fort-russ.com/2018/11/n...t-program-for-the-future-part-three-of-three/​

 

No, Fox news isn't always accurate, and majority were ukranian protestors....were you there?


Up to RF?? The RF isn't interested in "novorussian project"...it's a failed entity, and most respondents in DPR stated that they wish to remain with Ukraine.....Fake News basically.

 

I'm glad you're telling me what Putin thinks, because it certainly doesn't conform to anything he said, nor to the facts that has been presented in any of the reports.

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Of course they were Ukrainians, but there were some poles among them - which is strange don't you think? Smith had a map of Ukraine and was marking the areas the protesters were coming from. He was waiting for them to start coming from the Eastern and Southern part of Ukraine, but it was to no avail.

There is a video of some supporters of Yanukovich from Crimea telling of their ordeal. On the way back they were stopped by Nazi militants. Their buses were burned, and they were harrassed for eight hours. 7 were killed and 30 went missing. They were told they were going to Crimea to do the same - this is why Crimea declared their independence. It's also why they asked the Russians stationed there to protect them until a referendum could be held.

Actually the standard of living in the DPR is higher today than the rest of Ukraine, so why would they want to join Ukraine - especially after Kiev assassinated their heroes?

When they had a vote years ago, they wanted to unite with the Russian Federation like Crimea, but Yanukovich told them on TV not to vote for unity, but to vote to federate. It was impossible at that time for them to separate from Ukraine. The industries in Donbas were much too integrated with the rest of the country.

They also asked Russia at Minsk to please annex them the way they did Crimea, and Putin said no. He told them that they have to remain with Ukraine. In a documentary on Crimea, he said that it was impossible to annex the Donbas since he wouldn't know where the demarcation line should be. The further west they went into Ukraine, the less they wanted to unite with Russia.

This is the reason he closed the border with Ukraine, and forced the militias to accept Poroshenko's surrender and not to go any further into Ukraine.

Kiev though hasn't followed through on the Minsk integration plan with Donesk and Lugansk. Instead Kiev keeps breaking whatever connections they have with the Donbas. One example is that Kiev refuses to pay the pensions owed, and they are forced to use Russian banks and the Ruble.

Another example is that they stopped buying coal from Donbas, and they were forced to sell it to Russia. Since the industries in Ukraine use a special type of coal, they would have to get it from from S. Africa - which was far away. So they ended up buying the Donbas coal at a higher price from Russia.

In other words like Washington with its sanctions, which are forcing nations to drop the American dollar, it's Kiev's own stupidity that has forced the Donbass to turn to Russia.

 

Here's a bit of information I picked up:

Is Poroshenko following orders from the same people that pressured Trump to cancel the meeting with Putin? My gosh we voted for Trump thinking he would have the power to get rid of the war mongers. It doesn't seem he has it though, or at least not yet.

It's also assumed by former experts in Ukraine, that the sailors were set up by Poroshenko, with the hope that some would be killed by the Russians for its propaganda value. Actually only three sailors were slightly wounded and are given first aid in Russian hospitals. The ships will be released in 3 months.

Papers have been found aboard a ship that proves entering waters that had always been part of Russia, was a pre planned provocation by Poroshenko. I find it strange that they would find the papers, unless Kiev knows that it can be as careless as it wants to provoke Russia without any condemnation from the West. As Putin said, Poroshenko can eat babies and they wouldn't care.

Russian has now moved it's S-400 missile defense to Crimea.

Ukraine considers itself in a state of war - Russia does not.

 

This whole thing stinks as far as I'm concerned...Ukraine sent those boats in, knowing how the Russians will respond, then quickly called for Marshall law on some notion the Russians are going to invade... America (who btw are foaming at the bit to sanction Nord stream 2 so they can sell their gas to Europe) very quick to fully support Ukraine against this "unprecedented Russian aggression" when all they've done is defend their borders.

Straight out of the scumbags playbook... while at the same time accusing China of not practising fair trade.

At least Merkel is being sensible about it.

all very convenient

 

Poroshenko, is now detaining men up to the age of 60 as they try to enter Lugansk, and are being told they must fight to defend the homeland. Defend the homeland from who? As one man said, and they expect us to defend these people.

Seems Poroshenko is cracking up, and doesn't know what to do to stay in power, but why? Also why is Washington backing him - but then again he is a billionaire.

 

They could. If there missiles ever got out of their silos or off of their mobile launchers or out of the vertical launch tubes of their one or two missile submarines.

If China was really threatening the U.S. that would never happen. One day perhaps but not as it stands today.

 

Let's not forget there have been calls to destroy the bridge by Ukraine, so there is extra security there. Besides Ukraine had complied with all laws before when entering the straits, so why did they decide not to unless if was a deliberate provocation.

Anyway this what Putin said about it at the VTB Capital Forum 'Russia Is Calling':

“There are clear signs of a provocation prepared in advance, designed to use as a pretext for imposing martial law in the country. It has nothing to do with attempts to regulate relations between Russia and Ukraine. This is a game of aggravation, ” the president said, speaking at the VTB Capital forum “Russia is calling!”.

He recalled that the Ukrainian ships entered the Russian territorial waters, which were such even before the annexation of the Crimea.

“Without responding to the requests of our border guards, they began to move straight to the bridge. They did not react to the offers to wait in the waiting area, they were still offered to return back to the waiting area – even after violating our state border, they were silent, they didn’t respond at all, ” the president added.

Russian border guards, as the head of state noted, were doing their duty. “And how should border guards act? Military vessels invaded the territorial waters of the Russian Federation and did not respond. It was unclear what they were going to do. How should the border guards act? If they acted differently, they [the border guards] would all have to be brought to justice, ” Putin said.​

 

so what "papers" have been found jenny?? were they comic books?
what waters? These are shared waters...hasnt anything to do with muscovia....learn geography.
Well Poroshenko doesnt eat babies...but we all know putinka kisses tummies of little boys...kinda sick dont you think...only pedophiles do that....are you are pedophile supporter?

 

Muscovites pleaded their case...no one was willing to listen really Jenny....

 

if Russia doesnt free the soldiers by Sunday, NATO should provide safe passage for all Ukrainian vessels into the Azov Sea

 

Another motive — the provocation was staged to expedite the procedure of joining NATO. The 2003 Russia-Ukraine agreement, which states that the Azov Sea is considered to be the domestic waters of both the two countries, can be annulled. A bill to repeal the treaty was introduced in the Ukrainian parliament (Rada) last summer. It forbids any warship from entering the sea without the consent of both nations. If that agreement is torn up, the 1982 United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea would take effect. Russia’s and Ukraine’s territorial waters would extend for 12 nautical miles from their respective coasts. The interior of that sea would become international waters, allowing NATO ships to enter the Azov Sea without restrictions.

Kiev also hopes that military aid from NATO countries will increase, allowing it to build a powerful navy and coastal defenses. It would like to have an international monitoring mission stationed in the Azov Sea, probably under the auspices of the OSCE and with the participation of navies that are unfriendly to Russia. Another thing the Ukrainian president would like to see happen is for US President Trump to cancel his meeting with Russian President Putin at the G20 summit in Argentina.

What has prompted Kiev’s actions? It was the backing of the West. On Oct. 25, the European Parliament adopted a resolution on the Azov Sea to express its support of Ukraine. On Nov. 19, UN High Representative for Foreign Affairs and Security Policy Federica Mogherini stated that the EU foreign ministers had discussed taking relevant “targeted measures” against Russia due to the situation in the Azov Sea. The US continues to expand its military assistance to Ukraine. The US already has a military facility in Ochakovo. Once the Oliver H. Perry-class frigates arrive in Ukraine, they will be followed by American naval instructors. The US presence and military infrastructure will gradually expand. Great Britain is doing the same thing.
https://www.strategic-culture.org/n...n-in-kerch-strait-pursuing-hidden-agenda.html

 

Poroshenko then was following orders from the US. From what I read the Nato aligned Atlantic Council wants Ukraine to sabotage the bridge, and to call Moscow's bluff and put Nato ships into the Sea of Azov. Not that they would be able to sail in it since it is shallow. Russia has now installed its S-400 missile defense system in Crimea. They want a war, and rendered Trump powerless.

According to the following video from the Duran, Ukraine has confiscated 14 Russian ships. If you get on to 17:00 in the following video, he tells what happened at the straits, and shows a video taken during the incident where the Russian boat crashes into the tug boat.

You can hear the Russian swearing at the Ukrainian coast guard ship for not getting out of the way, and for veering in front of him. Seems this incident is a propaganda repeat of the Ukrainian shoot down of the Malaysian airliner and the false flag chemical attacks, where truth and respect for human lives is secondary to political agendas. Seems a repeat of history. Adolf Hitler comes to mind.

 

Vis ... I know that too and I did not say it was legal. Only if you take this illegal step of the times when the USSR happened, then you trigger a domino effect, because the list of illegal interests within the USSR is mega long.

The problem is that here Russia slept at the collapse and end of the USSR and failed to turn the Crimea back into Russian territory.

 

And ... do you trust your expert so much that you want to try it? Not really ... I think!

And as for your American experts and their assessment of potential enemies and their capabilities and capabilities, you have ... sorry ... a lousy history of misjudgments and idiotic self-overestimation / underestimation of the adversary, down to ignorance and arrogance and loss of reality.

 

Meanwhile, I read that the Russians have been preparing the whole thing for a long time to make it a False Flag mission of the Russian secret service to discredit the Ukraine ... does not seem to me excluded, because not only the evil West can do that, too The Russians and others can do that and often enough.

What disturbs me about your posts over and over again is your ridiculous nature and your idiotic attempt to make Ukraine a Nazi state. Yes, there are Nazis there ... but they also exist on the Russian side, only you do not want to have that and ignore it!

 

Give me effing strength - Putin's a 'paedophile' now. Stop polluting this board with your ludicrous anti-Putin drivel.

 

Murrey refers to the UN Convention on the Law of the Sea, which is not the case.
The status of Sea of Azov and Kerch Strait is regulated by bilateral agreement between Russia and Ukraine. This agreement is not cancelled.
Ukrainian boats entered the Russia's territorial waters in the Black Sea.
All what they needed to do was to make a notification and receive a permission, that wasn't done.
The regime of the passage of the strait is the same as existed there under Ukrainian authority before 2014.

 

Go ahead and point them out, I'm interested in what you have?

 

Can you cite chapter and verse please, and I'll copy to Murray.

 

Amen to that...

 

Jiji are you still donating your Rubles to the site? Put some on the card for me too... I'd owe you...

 

Good one

 

You've been Amening a lot lately... no good.. .