More Americans and most Republicans now believe in climate change

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by MrTLegal, Nov 30, 2018.

  1. drluggit

    drluggit Well-Known Member

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    Nice dodge. In a world of choice, chose. If you are alarmed, act. Demonstrate that you actually have the stones to do something other than endlessly consume more and demand that others make the sacrifices for you.
     
  2. Sharpie

    Sharpie Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    That's a perfect example of the misinformation you have been fed, and have not questioned. I challenge you to use your god-given intelligence by considering the following:

    The world is now 1.4 degree hotter than it was in 1880. https://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/world-of-change/DecadalTemp
    The carbon footprint in today's world is thousands of times greater than the world of the 1880s.

    "China's emissions passed those of the U.S. in 2005, and by 2012 had surpassed the combined contribution of both the U.S. and the EU. Should recent trends continue, China will be responsible for the most atmospheric carbon dioxide in less than 20 years." https://www.forbes.com/sites/rrapie...de-than-the-u-s-and-eu-combined/#374b0e74628c

    In the past 100 years, the population on earth has increased from 1.5 to 6.1 BILLION. THIS is the reason for accelerated global warming.

    What do you Lefties want to do about it?
    Raise taxes on the middle class?
    Good luck with that one.
     
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  3. iamanonman

    iamanonman Well-Known Member

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    I have not ever asked anyone to bear the burden for the harm I cause...ever. In fact, I've stated multiple times on this forum that the fairest policies are those force people to pay in proportion to the damage they cause. I accept responsibility for the damage I cause and will gladly pay to mitigate my own damage.

    You, on the other hand, have repeatedly told me that you don't want to take on the burden of your own actions and that you want those of us who accept our own responsibility to also accept yours so you don't have to be burdened by it.

    You know it isn't fair so you rationalize it by convincing yourself that it isn't actually a problem.
     
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  4. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    I challenge you to actually get your facts straight

    Reading this might help

    https://www.ipcc.ch/site/assets/uploads/2018/02/WG1AR5_SPM_FINAL.pdf
     
  5. iamanonman

    iamanonman Well-Known Member

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    Yes and no. THE reason is the fact that CO2 molecules capture certain infrared spectrum photons and convert their quantized energy into thermal energy. The effect happens regardless of how those molecules got released in the atmosphere. We just happen to live in an era where man is the modulating factor for their release. And yes, more people means more CO2 release since we've opted to use fossil fuels for the develop of our civilization and economy. But, the exact same result would occur had nature released those molecules.

    First, I'm not a lefty.

    Second, everyone should be required to pay for the damage they cause in proportion to the magnitude of that damage. If that means raising taxes then so be it. Just make sure the tax applies to everyone equally. If you do X percent of the damage then you pay X percent of the total tax. If you are opposed to the idea of taxes then just come up with an alternative that treats all people fairly.

    I can tell you the current policy is a massive wealth redistribution scheme. We are transferring (or more aptly...stealing) wealth from future generations to increase it for the current generation.. That isn't right.
     
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  6. drluggit

    drluggit Well-Known Member

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    Pay? To do what? Send the goons out to enforce population control? Pay to enrich the very few so they can live richly on their gilded perches while the rest of the population spiral back to the stone age? How do you think your paying in will assuage the hurt to the environment that you clamor about?

    The difference is that somehow you accept complicity in a guilt that most probably cannot be effected by whatever cure you prescribe. In medicine, we have an ethos, "first, do no harm". You should think about that once in a while.
     
  7. XploreR

    XploreR Well-Known Member

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    Wrong. U.S. emissions have increased again this year. We're NOT doing our share. We're part of the continuing problem.
     
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  8. Beer w/Straw

    Beer w/Straw Well-Known Member

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    Well, I proposed ITER didn't I?

    https://www.iter.org/
     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2018
  9. DivineComedy

    DivineComedy Well-Known Member

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    If we go back to find this brilliant lie in the thread that led to what you responded to, it explains a lot about this so-called “debate”: “Also, 36% of your fellow Republicans appear to not know what the cavemen knew.”

    Is the following you responded to necessary lacking important facts?

    “In the past 100 years, the population on earth has increased from 1.5 to 6.1 BILLION. THIS is the reason for accelerated global warming.”

    You see I just checked that summary for policy makers, funny thing; the word “population” doesn’t seem to be in it at all. Even the caveman knew that if you go out and cut down a tree for the coming of age ceremony that you run out of trees, oh, wait, I’m wrong, Jacques Cousteau’s old “caveman” in Africa said they had to go farther and farther to find a tree to cut down. Then you have the sterile waters of sorrow, where the woman with 15 kids was pregnant with another.

    You can give me the science that says we are running out of trees, but without telling why, that coming of age ceremony, it is meaningless for policy; might as well blame some tree-eating giraffe. You could claim the waters are full of sorrow, but the reason has more to do with population than with charcoal.

    More people takes more energy, it is just simple physics. You can’t make policy if you ignore the fracking population.

    Found it:
    “…two much carbon dioxide—all can be traced easily to too many people.” (p44, The Population Bomb, Dr. Paul R. Ehrlich, Ballantine Books, my copy, Fourteenth Printing 1980)
     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2018
  10. drluggit

    drluggit Well-Known Member

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    So here's the issue. ITER might be fine at some point. It still doesn't address the more pressing issues that the AGW faithful want, like population control, consumption economy transformation, and so many other non climate related socialist agenda items. But also think about this. Will ITER be free? If it becomes the only method, doesn't that implicitly include also a method for rationing from it?
     
  11. Beer w/Straw

    Beer w/Straw Well-Known Member

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    The sun is free.
     
  12. doombug

    doombug Well-Known Member

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    Not at night.
     
  13. drluggit

    drluggit Well-Known Member

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    So, you have to "create" and "build" and "maintain" an independent fusion source, right? Which isn't the sun. It's a machine that exists somewhere on this Earth of ours, right? And that won't be free, will it.
     
  14. XploreR

    XploreR Well-Known Member

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    First, polar bears ARE INDEED a threatened species. Global warming is melting the ice pack polar bears depend on for hunting seals. With no pack ice, bears are constrained to the land mass, where arctic food is insufficient for survival.

    It's sad that Mankind is infected with this psychotic need to feel "superior" to others around him. It's a deeply disturbing & highly destructive disease. It affect his every action, and is the source of much pain & misery across the planet. It leads us to disrespect, then disregard others around us with legitimate claims to life, happiness & health equal to our own. I feel neither inferior or superior to anyone or any other life form around me. Everyone and every thing alive fills a nitch in the web of life on Earth. All of us suffer consequences whenever any of them are forced into extinction. Most of us suffer when a few of us impose our sense of superiority over those we regard as less than ourselves around us. I don't agree with that philosophy or activity, and refuse to be a party to it.
     
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  15. Beer w/Straw

    Beer w/Straw Well-Known Member

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    And the Roamans built aqueducts that weren't free to build just by a snap of the fingers...
     
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  16. drluggit

    drluggit Well-Known Member

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    Not the question. The question is why you expect the energy from ITER to be distributed freely to the people. I doubt that is an accurate position to take here.
     
  17. Beer w/Straw

    Beer w/Straw Well-Known Member

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    Go off in the woods and live like a lone caveman then.
     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2018
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  18. drluggit

    drluggit Well-Known Member

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    Which means what? That you don't understand that creating the one true energy source won't also be used to control everything that uses it? This seems unlikely to be avoidable. So why invoke a position then not taken? That seems pretty weak. just sayin....
     
  19. Beer w/Straw

    Beer w/Straw Well-Known Member

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    I don't know what I'm talking about?

    You're the one who doesn't seem to want civilization to advance.
     
  20. drluggit

    drluggit Well-Known Member

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    In what way? ITER seems to be a good idea. Already said it. I asked the more difficult question of what happens if we adopt a single central way of presenting energy. You said it would be "free". I doubt it.
     
  21. Beer w/Straw

    Beer w/Straw Well-Known Member

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    No, I just said the sun was free.

    This is a project funded by around 35 different countries. Not just some Saudi oil rich country.
     
  22. Mac-7

    Mac-7 Banned

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    Environmentaliats can declare anything an endangered species for political purposes

    But the fact is poloar bears are not decreasing
     
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  23. iamanonman

    iamanonman Well-Known Member

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    I don't want population control. I want to reduce the growth rate of CO2 in the atmosphere.
     
  24. drluggit

    drluggit Well-Known Member

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    Hmm... well, ok. So, explain how you think that happens then.
     
  25. Beer w/Straw

    Beer w/Straw Well-Known Member

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    But you just don't want it to happen, do you?
     

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