Lies and False Narratives of Christianity

Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by usfan, Aug 26, 2018.

  1. CourtJester

    CourtJester Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2013
    Messages:
    27,769
    Likes Received:
    4,921
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Actually the fact is that Christianity is irrelevent. It neither gets the blame or the credit for any of the actions of humans. It is only the hubris of Christians that ascribe it any significant importance. Human behavior is human behavior and pretending religion has any significant long term relevence is just plain silly. Religion is just a justification for behavior never really a cause.
     
    Renee likes this.
  2. Renee

    Renee Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2017
    Messages:
    14,640
    Likes Received:
    7,802
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    I would say most of them are true. What is even sillier is you created false claims and then disputed them.You create Strawmen.like whoever said Christianity is anti education? Whoever said that Christians are bigots and racists. What is funny is you cite Christians as leading the abolition movement but you don’t acknowledge that Christians created slavery
     
  3. Renee

    Renee Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2017
    Messages:
    14,640
    Likes Received:
    7,802
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    Religion is the belief that an invisible man in the sky went poof and everything just happened. It’s santa for adults
    I cannot believe in a God that would allow people to suffer for no reason. I cannot believe in a God that would punish someone who did not worship him
     
  4. delade

    delade Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2017
    Messages:
    5,844
    Likes Received:
    317
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Gender:
    Male
    How do you know that Hitler referred to them as 'mud people'?

    In the Harry Potter series, while the parallels were not originally intentional, there is much similarity between Voldemort's pureblood ideology and the master race ideology of the Nazis, with wizards being "pure" and anyone with Muggle (non-wizard) blood being considered "half-blood" or "mudblood", a word treated the same way a racial slur would be treated in the real world (Neo-Nazis call non-white people mud people).

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Master_race


    Would you think this person to be 'white'?

    [​IMG]

    ItOtto Ernst Remer, leader of the postwar Socialist Reich Party



    How about this person?

    [​IMG]

    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/20/world/europe/uk-neo-nazi-national-action.html


    Who is white and who is not?


    What about these?

    [​IMG]
    Socialist Reich Party leaders Dorls, Remer and Wolf von Westarp in August 1952
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2019
  5. Distraff

    Distraff Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2011
    Messages:
    10,833
    Likes Received:
    4,092
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I think the most effective arguments against the bible is that it just lacks evidence and it has some really bad philosophy. As for the bigoted attack, the bible has some anti-gay stuff. I guess it depends on what you consider to be bigoted.
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2019
  6. Greenleft

    Greenleft Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2013
    Messages:
    1,482
    Likes Received:
    417
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Gender:
    Male
    Christianity has the concept of thought crime. Christians want you to think you are worthy of eternal torture just because you have sexual desires for others especially if it is someone of the same sex. Every time I masturbate or if failing that I get a wet dream, I'm making Yahweh angry.

    A Christian thinks that just because a man wears a clerical collar, he has the authority to judge people and tell them what they can and cannot do with their genitals.
     
  7. RiaRaeb

    RiaRaeb Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2014
    Messages:
    10,698
    Likes Received:
    2,469
    Trophy Points:
    113
    It was a simple enough question which you responded to originally with Ad Hom
    And now deflect with further silliness, as you have shown over and over again you have no interest in the truth, you just want to promote your religious bigotry.
     
  8. Swensson

    Swensson Devil's advocate

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2009
    Messages:
    8,176
    Likes Received:
    1,075
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    I don't mean to suggest that you find something specific I have said, I can save you the hassle by simply telling you that I haven't said any of those things. I'm questioning the validity of addressing a world view by addressing only arguments which the adherents don't necessarily hold. Would you for instance accept an argument saying that the Christian narrative is that of the Westboro Baptist Church (or some church which you do not agree with)?

    This is probably a bit outside the scope of the thread, but the point of secularism is removing religious justifications from that which is unavoidable in normal life. In practice, the most tangible thing is separation of church and state. I like to think that it is competitive and taught (more than indoctrinated).
     
  9. RiaRaeb

    RiaRaeb Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2014
    Messages:
    10,698
    Likes Received:
    2,469
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Yes, Stalin was certainly a Christian for some of his life, his nickname was "The Priest", he used Christianity during WW2 to get people to fight, all established fact.
     
  10. Greenleft

    Greenleft Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2013
    Messages:
    1,482
    Likes Received:
    417
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Gender:
    Male
    I happen to have recently bought a copy of 'Origin of Species'. The more I hear of the book's Christian detractors the more excited I am to read it. It's there on my bookshelf alongside the Qur'an and The Communist Manifesto.
     
    usfan likes this.
  11. RiaRaeb

    RiaRaeb Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2014
    Messages:
    10,698
    Likes Received:
    2,469
    Trophy Points:
    113
    The quotes you have attributed to Adolf Hitler were actually those of Albert Speer who said Hitler had made these statements, do you have any non third party quotes?
     
  12. usfan

    usfan Banned

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2012
    Messages:
    6,878
    Likes Received:
    1,056
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Unfortunately, progressive indoctrinees do not operate by reason, nor can they 'debate' with facts, logic, civility, and decorum.

    This is true of some older conservatives, who are only partially indoctrinated, not like some of the full bore millennials who parrot ALL the tenets of progressive faith.

    The Narrative

    That is all that matters. Evidence, reason, history, facts... these are irrelevant to the Narrative. It must be repeated, loudly and often.. that is the agenda. Not Truth. Not balance. Not understanding.
    No.
    Only the Narrative matters, and they repeat it with zealous dedication. Here are a few favorites:
    • The bible is full of errors!
    • Christians hate education & science!
    • Christians are bigots, and want to make a theocracy!
    • Christianity is responsible for all human evils!
    • Slavery, genocide, conquest, and killing are from Christianity!
    • Hitler was a Christian!
    • America was founded by irreligious skeptics, who wanted to keep Christians from controlling everyone!
    There are, unfortunately, more. These are constantly promoted in the public discourse. Correcting any of these lies in a progressive setting will bring howls of indignation, and cries of, 'Kill the infidel!' 'This blasphemer should not live!'

    We are in a time of post Christian transition. Since the 1960s, the trend has been away from judeo/Christian values, and American, Enlightenment principles of governance, toward a socialist/progressive fantasy. Capitalism, America, Christianity, and other bulwarks of human freedom are being dismantled for the new religion of Progressivism. The propaganda drums pound constantly, and few escape their Indoctrination
     
  13. RiaRaeb

    RiaRaeb Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2014
    Messages:
    10,698
    Likes Received:
    2,469
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I am more than happy to debate with you about Hitler and his Christianity, you however have deflected any of my questions and replied with Ad Hom, you appear unable to resist silly little labels like Progressive Indoctrainees and the religion of Progressivism.

    Lets start with some quotes factually made by Hitler and recorded at the time, not third party dinner table quotes.

    No, it is not we that have deserted Christianity, it is those who came before us who deserted Christianity. We have only carried through a clear division between politics which have to do with terrestrial things, and religion, which must concern itself with the celestial sphere. There has been no interference with the doctrine (Lehre ) of the Confessions or with their religious freedom (Bekenntnisfreiheit ), nor will there be any such interference. On the contrary the State protects religion, though always on the one condition that religion will not be used as a cover for political ends....

    National Socialism neither opposes the Church nor is it anti-religious, but on the contrary it stands on the ground of a real Christianity.... For their interests cannot fail to coincide with ours alike in our fight against the symptoms of degeneracy in the world of to-day, in our fight against a Bolshevist culture, against atheistic movement, against criminality, and in our struggle for a consciousness of a community in our national life... These are not anti-Christian, these are Christian principles! And I believe that if we should fail to follow these principles then we should to be able to point to our successes, for the result of our political battle is surely not unblest by God.


    -Adolf Hitler, in his speech at Koblenz, to the Germans of the Saar, 26 Aug. 1934

    Indeed you could replace the word Bolshevist for Progressive in the speech above and echo the sentiments often expressed on this forum.

    So far as the Evangelical Confessions are concerned we are determined to put an end to existing divisions, which are concerned only with the forms of organization, and to create a single Evangelical Church for the whole Reich....

    And we know that were the great German reformer [Martin Luther] with us to-day he would rejoice to be freed from the necessity of his own time and, like Ulrich von Hutten, his last prayer would be not for the Churches of the separate States: it would be of Germany that he would think and of the Evangelical Church of Germany.


    -Adolf Hitler, in his Proclamation at the Parteitag at Nuremberg on 5 Sept. 1934

    Sadly I doubt I will get anything other than more Ad Hom or deflection in reply.
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2019
  14. usfan

    usfan Banned

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2012
    Messages:
    6,878
    Likes Received:
    1,056
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    :roll:
    Right. Christianity has had little to no influence on the human experience, and next to nothing, now.

    Why is it hated and reviled with such hostility, if it is so inconsequential?
    So, you believe most of the list are true, but then accuse me of 'false claims!', and strawman!. How does that work?

    Christians 'created' slavery? Really? :roll:

    Thank you for illustrating the premise of the OP. Lies and false narratives abound, regarding Christianity .
    Good promotion of narratives. No basis in fact or truth, but that is not important to progressive propagandists.

    Jack off all you want. I don't care, and i doubt many other Christians do, either. But why project your caricatures on me, or other Christians? To promote some phony narrative? To justify religious bigotry?
    No, i have learned to avoid you. You needle me with ad hom, and when i expose it, you report me and i am infracted. I do not desire to converse with someone who uses such tactics.
     
  15. Vegas giants

    Vegas giants Banned

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2016
    Messages:
    49,909
    Likes Received:
    5,343
    Trophy Points:
    113
    The bible is the most violent book ever written
     
  16. usfan

    usfan Banned

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2012
    Messages:
    6,878
    Likes Received:
    1,056
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    A fine statement if faith, with some shots at your ideological enemy. Some false narrative, but mostly incredulity and derision for the beliefs of others.
    The assumption of the Truth of YOUR beliefs, and the absurdity of THEIR beliefs is obvious.

    How can you make that assumption with such dogmatic certainty?
    There is a historical, scholarly, factual, exegetical basis for Christianity. That is not the debate, here. The Founder defined it for us, and i am in a long line of followers of His Teachings.

    As to suggesting that 'progressives don't believe these narratives!', there are too many who conflict with that statement. And were you to divulge your beliefs, i suspect many of the 'narratives' about Christianity would be revealed.
    Great! Knock yourself out! :)

    Did you think this would 'shock!' me, somehow? :cynic:

    :roflol:
     
    Jeannette likes this.
  17. Greenleft

    Greenleft Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2013
    Messages:
    1,482
    Likes Received:
    417
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Gender:
    Male
    Then what the hell are they doing on my doorstep preaching the "good news"? "Good day brother! Are you interested in joining my anti-sex club?"
     
  18. usfan

    usfan Banned

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2012
    Messages:
    6,878
    Likes Received:
    1,056
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Good addition. I missed that narrative in the OP.
    12. The bible is the most violent book ever written!
     
  19. usfan

    usfan Banned

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2012
    Messages:
    6,878
    Likes Received:
    1,056
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Invite them to join your reach around club!
    :roflol:

    People proselytize their beliefs all the time. ..happens here with every philosophical belief.

    I just don't see how you can condenm ALL, based on a false narrative, for actions or words of a few. I don't condemn all atheists as anti-christian bigots, even though a great many are.
     
  20. Greenleft

    Greenleft Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2013
    Messages:
    1,482
    Likes Received:
    417
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Gender:
    Male
    Because I've been lied to growing up. All those hours in church and Sunday school. All a lie. I was never offered the choice of atheism. My parents taught me there is only ONE ABSOLUTE truth. That is a lie. I never understood why my religion was never taught in school. Only when I graduated did I learn of atheism.
     
  21. usfan

    usfan Banned

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2012
    Messages:
    6,878
    Likes Received:
    1,056
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    I just try to inject a little humor, in a contentious, humorless world. ..glad you caught it. ;)

    As a lone Defender of the Faith, battling the evil hordes of Darkness, it helps if i don't take it seriously.. i hope it helps others to return the favor.. :D

    We should have a great fewer disputes in the world if words were taken for what they are, the signs of our ideas only, and not for things themselves. ~John Locke
     
  22. usfan

    usfan Banned

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2012
    Messages:
    6,878
    Likes Received:
    1,056
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Perhaps you have just traded one indoctrinated belief for another?

    How can you be so sure, that your former beliefs were 'lies!', but now you own the truth?
     
  23. Greenleft

    Greenleft Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2013
    Messages:
    1,482
    Likes Received:
    417
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Gender:
    Male
    I don't own THE truth. I own most and the best of truths. Not the WHOLE truth.

    As for lies: there was no planet wide flood. A lie. Scientifically impossible. Joshua and the Israelites did not conquer dozens of micro nations because Canaan was for most of that period attributed to the books of Joshua and Judges part of the Kingdom of Egypt. Another historic lie.
     
  24. Vegas giants

    Vegas giants Banned

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2016
    Messages:
    49,909
    Likes Received:
    5,343
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Yep. The most violent God ever described is the Christian God of the old testament
     
  25. CourtJester

    CourtJester Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2013
    Messages:
    27,769
    Likes Received:
    4,921
    Trophy Points:
    113
    The dislike for Christianity stems from it's need to tell us how to run our lives and it's efforts to curtail our freedoms in the name of Christial morality. Prohibition, abortion, making drugs illegal, creationism in schools, etc, etc. Nobody would be bothered by the need for Christians to choose their own morality no matter how ignorant. Butbwhen they try to impose it on the restbof us they meet well deserved opposition
     
    Giftedone likes this.

Share This Page