My thread in memory of Aiia Maasarwe and many others.

Perhaps educate the children that hate such as above is the disrespect that intitiates the problems.

What truly is amazing, the haters seem to think this subject is a joke.

 

All drunks don't behave like that. Alcohol frees up inhibitions. If you are basically a woman bashing thug, then alcohol will free you up to behave that way.

 

Absolute BS
Are you saying that, in regards to anything and everything...all people need is education and everyone behaves...absolute garbage....
We have a culture in Australia, and its built on drinking and gambling...simple as that,.........
Wife bashing, and the murder and rape of women..whilst alcohol is not always involved is a result of that culture...you tell me then...how would you change that aussie culture to drink piss until youre legless, gamble on anything including two flies crawling up a wall, and then go home and abuse your missus or your kids....
Cme on....tell me...this will be good.....
And please dont just come back with the lame brain answer that all men need to do is respect women and all the rape and murder and abuse will go away....

 

Of course another off shoot of getting pissed the aussie way is the "king hit" thugs....
Forgot to mention that...I suppose that violence doesnt really matter, does it, as its men attacking men....

 

Rape is about power and dominance. (Keeping the uppity woman in her place). It's not the normal next step from getting drunk and or gambling.
King hitting and bashing up women is not normal behaviour.
Glorifying uncontrolled drinking and gambling is a bit old fashioned now. Men are evolving out of that sort of mind set.

I gamble and haven't yet bashed up my husband- not even when I was drunk.

You cant just blame alcohol and gambling. It's a glitch in the bloke's wiring.

 

No, you’re pushing the limits now of thread creation... Or are you just waving the red flag at the haters???

Anyway, Alcohol, drugs, gambling and on we could go. The issue behind it all could well be respect. Educate the children about how these things happen and that everybody should be respected, at least to the point of existence.

Sure there are many scumbags, just on this forum we see the haters posting their hate and insult which demeans the subjects they proclaim to oppose themselves. Still, they deserve respect of existence if not credibility of comment.

While people want to hide from the reality of what they support, nothing will change. I find it rather insulting that while supporting the minimisation of such acts people will preach about how people should act.

Drugs??? People are demanding quality assurance for drug abuse, rather than trying to stop the scourge of drug abuse and all problems associated with the use.

Sally is correct in education, but it needs to be part of a much bigger effort. Australians are complaining about lockout laws and responsible drinking policy. Either you stand up to help eradicate the problem or you pay lip service. Gillard made deal with Oakeshott and Windsor to address gambling laws for her bid to keep government which produced what??? More gambling more leniency of gambling laws and far greater easy at which to fill the addiction.

Many times governments talk about making deals to clean up the industry and help the addicts and where are we now??? You cannot play partisan politics on this, it appears the only people interested in addressing the issue are independents hoping to get a good name.

Perhaps instead of trying to demonise everybody who does not agree with them, people should stand up to help stop the underlying problems, instead of attacking everybody, including the victims in some sort of partisan effort to blame everybody else.

 

No, that is ONE aspect of rape it is not the complete picture.

Gambling is evolving out??? Gambling is the fastest growing industry today. Earning huge revenue for the governments both state and federal which is why they continue to refuse to address the issue.

And YES, you cannot just blame those two aspects. BUT addressing them is a start.

 

I think the thrust of my argument is excessive gambling and excessive drinking.
Correct me if Im wrong, but isnt that why we have AA and gamblers anonymous.....

 

Violence is violence........
Forgive me if I group child abuse, domestic violence, and participating in drinking and gambling to excess,
etc all in the same thread...perhaps I should start a single thread about each topic...now that would be time consuming, wouldnt it....
Or maybe I should have concentrated on the sad childhood of the killer...
It seems to me that the protest marches held worldwide yesterday concentrated on more subjects than just the rape/murder of Aissa..yet I am criticized for doing the same......Im looking for reasons for violence...and I know what they are...but no-one wants to listen...
Oh just educate everybody to respect women.....yeah..that'll work.....look around the world and there is violence everywhere....the human race is violent...
But in Australia, we are known for our infamous boozing, fighting, gambling culture....
Lets not try to change that...lets just educate people to respect one another......
Yep...that'll work.........

 

Nah, just being factious with that.

I think the point you make here is very important. We can look at one aspect of behaviour while other just as important consequences are ignored. This to me is how politicians and the haters get away with ignoring the problem. They do not consider the issue in entirety. Thus they push tunnel vision as some sort of focus to ignore the reality of what is going on. As with gambling and the addictive nature of gamblers, Alcoholics and drug abuse. Thus we see no action for the protection of Australians full stop.

You seem to be hung up in the fact education and respect are important parts of any action to address these issues. You’re talking about generational change here in Australia. You don’t seem to understand that in many way Australia is so far in front of the rest of the world when it comes to attitudes to women’s health, rights and safety. Several threads you have posted has been to point out this very nature and how it differs in Australia.


Anyway, you have to start somewhere, so education is the fastest and easiest way to start. Respecting others is something you can teach from a start, but as stated, it is simply a part of the policy that will change this situation.


Poo pooing an aspect to address the situation because it isn’t enough for you, then perhaps you could fill us into how you feel these things should be addressed??? All I have seen is whinging, no actual suggestion to change…

 

There is also White Ribbon.

Yes Australia used to be known as a land of yobbos, but not so much any more.

 

You seem to be a bit contradictory in this post....
One minute you are praising me in para II and then you conclude by saying Im just a whinger...no actual suggestion to change....well didnt I suggest changes in the OP...
Well, let me spell it out for you..........
Perhaps the various state governments could up the age for drinking and gambling to 21.....
Oh, is that being too radical....will that cause us to lose votes...maybe we might lose some revenue...
Maybe the brains of our millenials will have developed a little more in that 3 years......
I think you know my views on mandatory sentencing...a more severe penalty for violent crimes
might just act as a deterrent......
As for the FL Act...well its an absolute failure, as 50% of marriages fail anyway....whether the parties
separate for 12 months or two years...maybe the reason is that people get married too young.....
Oh perish the thought........he's going to talk about increasing the marriageable age to 21....
Maybe a little more maturity at the alter could save a few marriages.........
Once again...votes would be considered before anything so radical could be considered....
Perhaps the FL Act could be amended to compel compulsory marriage counselling every 6 months...
..something like a refresher course to say that you cant hit your wife....(unless youre a muslim, of course...)
......you might have to translate your sentence starting..."Several threads you have posted....."
As I really dont know what youre talking about.....

 

Read it again, I am pointing out that unless you provide something, then yes you just a whinger. We are pointing out some ideas which all you are doing is suggesting is wrong.

Not contradictory but simply pointing out the appearance.

Well, now talk about upping the drinking age has been about for a while, it is a consideration but That to me is just putting off the issue… Could you provide some evidence that this will reduce alcoholism??? Perhaps reduce the risk of offending???

Just raising the age of gambling will do absolutely nothing to deter gamblers. Australians learn at an early age about gambling and not a good lesson. Sweeps for horse races and raffles, but your against teaching anything, one would have to imagine how you reconcile these life lessons to reduction in gambling.

Mandatory sentencing doesn’t work, it is that simple. You have people jailed for the stupidest reasons under these sentencing measures and usually lead to escalation in crimes rather than a deterrent. However, the sentiment of tougher sentencing (which is what I believe you truly mean) I agree with. This mamby pamby approach of considering the criminal and not the victim simply does nothing but put criminal elements back on the street.

Now, interesting to consider the institution of marriage in this. I would consider that the value of marriage has been diminished over time. As we see, when the value of life reduces their tends to be an increase in deaths, just as in marriage. One would have to wonder if marriage has any contribution to the issues but as to provide a catalyst or excuse. I believe if they marry and abuse, they were always going to abuse.

As for your comment “Perhaps the FL Act could be amended to compel compulsory marriage counselling every 6 months...
..something like a refresher course to say that you cant hit your wife....” Not to nit-pick, but isn’t that education???

Some good points of discussion, all together interesting the perspective. Not sure possible results of these positions, but better than just sitting and doing nothing.

 

Cannot translate something that isn't mine...

 

This is your sentence....
"Several threads you have posted has been to point out this very nature and how it differs in Australia."
Im asking to you explain the sentence...
Didnt I provide a) b) c) d) e) f)....
...that is providing something is it not....
The simple reason I am suggesting upping the age for drinking is that people, if they are permitted to start drinking at a later age might....just might be a little more intelligent and be able to make better decisions
about how much to drink. You are aware, arent you..you do come across as intelligent, ..that the human brain is still developing at 18...and at 21 we are told that its still developing....
As to whether it reduces alcoholism...of course it would...do I have stats...do you have stats to say it wont...
As to excessive gambling the same applies...the brain at 21 is able to make better decisions...etc...
BTW I did say excessive drinking and excessive gambling...Im not against drinking and gambling...
My thought process regarding education is a criticism of education being the only answer.
Isnt that being touted by you and everyone else....
I seem to get the impression that youre saying education, by itself, solves all problems...my argument
is that you cant just rely on education by itself to solve the problem.
BTW mandatory sentencing exists in the USA for felonies...and no, I havent got the stats to say it works...
Mandatory sentencing is the opposite to soft sentencing...
Murder is murder, manslaughter is manslaughter, rape is rape, armed robbery is armed robbery
...crims shouldnt get a light sentence because of mitigation..
I have seen too many crims get a light sentence because of a slimy speech by a slimy lawyer...
Mitigation should not be taken into consideration....
If a crim is convicted of an armed robbery today, he should get the same sentence as the crim who was convicted of the same offence yesterday...
BTW I also feel that in rape trials, the rules of evidence should be amended to compel the accused to give evidence...in rape cases the burden of proof is unfairly tilted in favour of the accused....but thats another story....
In any case, being a defeatist, I suspect that nothing will change, and the six of us on this forum who talk to one another will continue to talk amongst ourselves...and when its all said and done...thats all it is....talk.....

 

[

Oh sorry, yes that is mine. I point out that you are suggesting that over all Australians are far more advanced in this area. Such as the thread on FGM and some others. I am simply supporting the stance you state in many areas and how it applies to here in Australia.

Ok, so your suggesting that a more mature drinking age will create a more mature response to drinking reducing the addition of alcohol thus reducing the instance of abuse… We could look at the US for those stats but I don’t think either of us will convince the other of the merit in that.

I will say, there is possible merit in your assumption as long as you couple that very principle with a intensive education program on the young mind in order to show how alcohol can damage the lives of so many…

As I said, we teach the children at a young age about gambling and give them a taste. Just raising the age does nothing to reduce the addiction on any measure…

No, I said from the start, education is a very important part of any solution. Nobody said it is the be all end all.

NT had mandatory sentencing. That is the three strikes you’re out. That found a poor homeless man gaoled for 15years for stealing food. Not hundreds of dollars’ worth, just a packet of biscuits. No, that is seriously wrong.

As I suggested, it is not mandatory sentencing but tougher sentencing… I concur with that.

Well now, We talk and others read. Social media carries a long way. It may well be just us six but do a search and you will find your thread and your post will come up. Somebody reads that decides they agree and takes that sentiment to another social media area. Somebody else sees that and on it goes.

I have noted ideas being touted in media by others that have been expressed here. Argued by many. It may well seem pointless to you but I have seen results. I have seen things carried around the world.

What you have to remember, is that you are posting your comment on the world stage. IF your credible, people will carry you word far and adopt them. There are 7billion people in this planet and where a significant amount interact on social media.

We are not just chatting in your lounge room…

 

Were going around in circles......but I did refer to mandatory sentencing for felonies only...stealing a packet of biscuits isnt a felony.....
Perhaps if my grandson wasnt permitted to gamble and drink until he was 21 he wouldnt be addicted to poker machines and have the liver of a 70 year old alcoholic at the age of 24......
I would have preferred three years of abstinence rather than three years of guzzling and gambling.....
....and he wants to get married....everythings looking just rosy.......
.....maybe we should have educated him........

 

We are going in circles, which is why I changed tact and stated the whinge, it work a bit but we are back at the same place.

Too Americanised, in Australia basically it is just criminal. The problem you have in the mandatory sentencing is that you are determining the seriousness of the crime. That is to say, the theft is of limited value so it hardly falls under the issue of if you Stole $50m. Mandatory sentencing does not determine a difference, it stipulates that it is theft, and theft on a 3rd strike is 15years imprisonment.

As stated, Australia does not determine the value of the crime as to the crime itself. Without mandatory sentencing the value of the crime determines the penalty of the crime. As stated you’re discussing the severity of penalty not the demand to sentence. If you want to change the complete legal system to accommodate the size, the severity and the community outrage of the crime you then will have to establish, just what value you put to the crime, the criminal and the victim… Very much subjective matter there.


As for your grandson, perhaps it may have been different raising the age. Instructing and showing the devastation of abuse of alcohol and the damage of flushing all your money down the drain. BUT when you get that $1000 jackpot and the short sharp numbing of the booze in your blood, NOTHING compares. You don’t see the $5000 you spent to win that money and the future is not considered. Just the NOW, just the selfish needs of the one. “and hey, it didn’t kill the football players or the bike riders they made lots of money “or “you only lose if you get caught, I won’t get caught I am smarter than them”

No, their needs to be a complete change in generational attitudes. I wish it was easy as just raising the age and educating the young, but the truth is, people think they are ten foot tall and bullet proof…UNTIL it happens to them…

 

Ill start another thread on mandatory sentencing for FELONIES...without the need for three strikes...

 

You can if you like but Australian legal system does not work like that. It simply denotes theft as theft, murder as murder and so on...
to change the fundimentals of the legal system for such is a huge undertaking.

 

There is.
Theft
Receiving
Robery
Aggravated robbery
Burglary
Aggravated Burglary
Theft by deception
Failure to make payment

Etc
All theft but all different definitions with their own sentences
There is a difference between someone talking you into giving money to a scam to someone breaking into your house to steal the money to two people grabbing you and taking the money from you.

Yes theft is theft, but not all are equal

https://www.legislation.gov.au/Details/C2004A00730/Html/Text


Billy also disagrees with mitigation.

There was a woman who murdered her husband but got off as she had endured years of abuse. Yes we could all think of a dozen solutions other than murder.

Too often those solutions don't work and the DV victim is the one murdered. That woman, who did get off of premeditated murder due to mitigating circumstances, doesn't have to worry.

Sometimes you just got to get rid of the problem, you see only two things, a solution and an outcome. If the outcome if you don't is worse than the outcome if you do ... Well?

 

I suppose if England had mitigation in the 1700's the makeup of our convicts would have been dramatically different

 

Yep. No stories of handkerchief or bread theft.

An ancestor of mine (ac Dad) was transported for just picking up a piece of rope.
Unfortunately...

 

And one of mine, a Tailor by trade, given free passage to Australia for taking home some offcuts to make clothes for his children as he couldn't afford to buy them.

 

They would have been sentenced to community service killing rats or something. Lol