Australia Day

Discussion in 'Australia, NZ, Pacific' started by Gwendoline, Jan 23, 2019.

  1. LeftRightLeft

    LeftRightLeft Well-Known Member

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    I take the insults from some people here as a compliment.
     
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  2. garry17

    garry17 Well-Known Member

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    Um, That is actually not true. It has nothing to do with agreeing with opinions, the fact is that the ideal of what Australia day stands for and what is claimed as being represented is based entirely on racist ideals.

    When you say that “you cannot begin to address diversity until we change something YOU claim” Paraphrasing, you are predicating any inclusion based on the paradigm of racist ideal. Just as the clear racist taunt you supported. You considered that as funny because it is now become acceptable to bash WHITE racism, to put it simply.

    It doesn’t matter where the racism is, people have to stop pretending while making the same racist mistakes of the past.


    IT is a fair enough point. However, that is YOUR ideal, it does not represent the reality of the situation. Sure bagging everybody into one bag due to the fact government cannot legislate for individual purpose is impossible.

    That being said, the cashless card is a clear display of failure of government, community and individual to address these issues. Ideally we take the abusers out of the situation and everything it beautiful and colourful, reality is the very public display of the DV reported by followers of a game blogger whose partner takes active measures to prevent your ideal...


    The fact is, cashless card for families doing the right thing should have absolutely no impact on them. The fact they have to live under such is by choice at present and communities are demanding they have the same access. You also have to understand, you suggesting that welfare is a god given right, it is not, it is a charity to help people survive through difficult situation. Oh and before the morons start jumping about, I use the word charity as it has common understanding and I am not interested in being side tract.

    So, if you don’t want to listen to the communities who are demanding these systems, (clearly you don’t live in them) Perhaps you could let us know exactly what systems you would consider to be better and how you would implement them??? Not just take the ideally derogatory stance and block successful intervention into this areas.

    SO you don’t like Bolt, frankly I don’t either. BUT doesn’t make him wrong or right. It just means I don’t race to the radio or TV and hang off his every word. I don’t know of any racism Bolt has committed, As I say I don’t listen to him, but I have heard him defend some very indefensible acts in the debate over sexual harassment. He wasn’t wrong in his ideal, just as you aren’t, he was wrong in the fact. Like LRL continues to try mediate the issues, Bolt does the same. Still That is why I don’t like him, he holds Ideal over reality…

    Isn’t that funny, I often point out how stupid it is to call someone arrogant on a forum which posts to the world their opinions. So I suggest you look up the term arrogant, you might get a surprise, or then again I am thinking it does not meet your ideal of what you think it means. As for the last, I give what I receive, I make no apologies but you insult others, don’t expect respect in return…

    No, I ALWAYS begin with subject with respect, I rarely am the first to cast disparage I simply return service. Pretending you are holier than thou does nothing for your comment, and turns people away from your word, JUST as you obscenest hatred of Bolt. Really, I don’t know how you think including Bolt into your comment shows anything other than your own bias…
     
  3. garry17

    garry17 Well-Known Member

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    You know, clearly you missed the point of that KKK thing. Clearly you decided to build your own strawman and take offence at the strawhouse built.



    So let me set it straight, YOU supported a clearly racist taunt.

    for those who want example, just check the comment itself and who likes it. Clearly supporting the comment of a seriously racist individual who pretends to be anything but.
    What I find really funny is that the people claiming to be tolerant and inclusive are the very people pointing to others as being racist and intolerant. I love the fact you label somebody with islamophobia because you don’t agree with what they say, yet you support a comment designed straight up as a racist taunt… The hypocrisy is just fabulous.



    Thus, pointing out that somebody who holds the same racist view while pretending to be standing against racism in all forms is in similarity to the KKK complaining about another racists stance. You are not being labelled as being same as the KKK or sympathetic to them just the action is as ludicrous as the KKK acting in the same manner.



    You say you haven't shown the same aggression, yet the first thing you do is support such comment. Nah, you’re trying to show something you’re not. Again, in your own words, when people think you lack credibility they also turn off...
     
  4. Gwendoline

    Gwendoline Well-Known Member

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    Garry, could you please clarify something before I respond? You seem preoccupied with (the word) ‘racism’. You mention the word ‘racism’ 14 times in your last two posts.

    Could you please let me know who you think I’m racist at - in order for me to have a semblance of knowing what you’re talking about.

    If it has anything to do with an “It’s OK to be White” type scenario, I probably won’t be able to respond for laughing too much.

    Racism: “Prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior.” Oxford Dictionary
     
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  5. LeftRightLeft

    LeftRightLeft Well-Known Member

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    This is what they don't understand ,well they do really understand they just ignore it completely. "Based on the belief that one's own race is superior"

    Us saying that January 26th is not suitable for an all inclusive "Australia Day" because to the indigenous peoples it represents the beginning of over 250 years of absolute horror and some of the worst crimes ever committed, is racist in their opinion .

    However I don't see how supporting one side is being racist, it's not about their race being superior or in some way more deserving than the other.

    The counter argument however is racist. Every counter argument either is outright racist or is totally dismissive of the situation for the indigenous population.

    Most indigenous people I know would be proud to celebrate Australia Day if it was on the day that we truly recognised as a nation the horrific history of the conquest of the Great South Lands. A day when we finished what was supposed to have occurred ,that we draw up and sign a treaty.

    Of course those that keep their hands in their pants will have a rant about why we need a treaty, what has happened has happened.

    That is true, it's what hasn't happened that concerns people.

    Let them keep reflecting their own issues on to you, it just makes your arguments stronger. If the only attack they have is to belittle you or your post. You win.
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2019
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  6. Gwendoline

    Gwendoline Well-Known Member

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    Coming to these forums, there's so much projection going on...

    Hope the move went well and glad to hear of the elections you contested.

    Luke Pearson was on the Drum tonight and said something to the effect that 'leadership' is about the rejection/about not adhering to the status quo. The idea stuck in my mind. How could anyone 'lead'/have anything 'real' to contribute while peddling/upholding the lameness, the gob-smacking inequities of the status quo?

    Well, it's really bizarre this idea of being called racist for being aware/knowledgeable of Australian history and for wanting redress and acknowledgment and treaty for Indigenous people.

    I really liked your kindergarten story. I was a bit older in my story, about 9 or 10, when the teacher told us there weren't many Aborigines in Tasmania, I shouted from the back of the class, "That's because we killed them all!" I think I was sent home that day. We must be kindred toddler/child activists. :)
     
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  7. garry17

    garry17 Well-Known Member

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    So you looked it up and I am glad you can count. Doesn't change the facts...


    You don't need me to tell you who your racist at, I know you support racism and that is enough. The fact you want to attempt to make it a one side thinks this and another thinks that, Such as the attempt to say "If it has anything to do with an “It’s OK to be White” type scenario" it has to do with fact you support racism as clearly displayed. You tell us that you cannot be tolerant until your demands of division are met.


    I find it funny, people cast dispersions at others for their bigotry and get all offended when theirs is shown.
     
  8. garry17

    garry17 Well-Known Member

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    You know, I find your stance quiet funny, You post your racism and hide when it is shown to be just that, racist. You post racist taunts in some effort to upset people because you cannot discuss issues you just demand everybody should agree with you.


    Your hate shows from under your skirt, You say
    "Most indigenous people I know would be proud to celebrate Australia Day if it was on the day that we truly recognised as a nation the horrific history"
    I hate to tell most do celebrate being Australian on the day as it is intended, I noted you claim that indigenous have had and I quote "indigenous peoples it represents the beginning of over 250 years of absolute horror" Well instead of complaining about what day is celebrated perhaps you could stand up for the horrors the indigenous are in today, instead of fabricating a indignation to embrace division in the nation…


    Clearly, you want to pretend others are projecting their beliefs on your comments. Funny thing is, it is YOUR racism that is highlighted not projected. To suggest it is a projection shows that you want to claim your comment is not racist but a perceived offence.


    BUT that is how ALL racism and bigotry is, they are not racist and bigoted, they just don’t like others. Nice try buddy, we all see your stance and I note again the support your stance has from others who claim to be tolerant and moderate…
     
  9. Gwendoline

    Gwendoline Well-Known Member

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    I asked you to let me know who I'm racist at. You declined.

    I mean, did it meet the Oxford Dictionary definition? Oh, no, wait - no doubt, it met your own definition!! (Who needs a reputable (irrefutable!) dictionary, right?!)

    I'm hardly offended after your comical display of overkill of using the word 'racism' 14 times in two posts. Face it, you're obsessed with the word. You could frame it and hang it in your living room. To keep the feeling (whatever it is) alive.

    You seem quite wobbly about racism. You'll mention it 14 times in two posts. But if you can't be clear in your prosecutions of racism - then why bother mentioning the word 14 times in two posts?

    Racism: Prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior. Oxford Dictionary
     
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  10. m2catter

    m2catter Well-Known Member

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    Gwendo,
    the man is on a mission.....
    Reg.
     
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  11. m2catter

    m2catter Well-Known Member

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    Hey Billy,
    not only Muslim, but indigenous people as well? And women?
    Man, is it that bad?
    Reg.
     
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  12. billy the kid

    billy the kid Well-Known Member

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    Hey Reg
    No...islam...the indigenous activists and the incessant promotion of women....
    No its not bad...its having an opinion....
    You left out politicians, banks, real estate salesmen and used car salesman...
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2019
  13. billy the kid

    billy the kid Well-Known Member

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    Thanx for that reg.
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2019
  14. bigfella

    bigfella Well-Known Member

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    I hate it when people cast dispersions. That is just the worst! I don't mind people casting nasturtiums, though it can get a bit messy. Casting aspirations is OK too, but not as good as casting metal, casting a fishing rod or casting a musical.

    Sadly all of this doesn't leave much time to do stuff like learn what words mean and when to use them.
     
  15. Monash

    Monash Well-Known Member

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    Billy, since by your own admission you don't give 'a stuff' about anyone else's opinion on this Forum why does it annoy you so much when other people appear to ignore your opinion?

    Rule of Life: you can't demand from others what you yourself are not prepared to grant or concede to someone else.
    You want respect - show it, you want informed debate - engage in it yourself.

    Finally if you are not happy with the quality of the discourse on this the forum it's because you are getting back exactly what you dish out, so why the outrage? The whole point of forums like this that they provide an opportunity to engage with people who hold disparate views and opinions to your own - and hopefully in the process learn something.

    If all you want to do is talk to someone who agrees with everything you say, well then I suggest your bathroom mirror is the best bet.
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2019
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  16. billy the kid

    billy the kid Well-Known Member

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    Its interesting to read comments like this from people on this forum who just sit back and take pot shots at other posters without even starting a thread themselves. It happens all the time.
    Why dont you start a thread instead of giving me a father/son lecture.
    If you dont like the way I post..thats too bad...
     
  17. Monash

    Monash Well-Known Member

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    Firstly, I wasn't trying to take 'pot shot' at you I was commenting on the way you respond to criticism of your posts you disagree with i.e. pretty much like you just did with mine.

    Secondly yes, its true I haven't started a tread yet but that is simply because I have been pretty busy & as a result have a limited time to spend on the Forum at the moment. Which incidentally has not prevented me from posting comments on various threads a few times.

    When I do see something I want to start a thread about I will (it will probably be related to a topic in science/military related issues or law and order - which happen to be areas I have a particular interest in) however I fail to see how simply starting a thread is significant.

    Anyone on this Forum can start a thread at any time they wish, starting a thread says nothing much one way or the other. What matters is how they phrase the question/issue being raised and even more importantly how they respond to opposing viewpoints. I believe that's where people are having issues.

    Lastly it wasn't intended as a 'father/son' chat. If that's how it came across I apologize, it wasn't my intention. I was simply stating basic rule of discourse - respond to people on this forum how you would like to be responded to.

    As for the whole 'father/son' thing. I can assure you in you mother's case I can you I would have used birth control. :smile:
     
  18. billy the kid

    billy the kid Well-Known Member

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    Well, we've had Sorry Day..
    We've had the kerfuffle about Australia Day...
    Lets have a kerfuffle about the National Anthem...
    Just to please a footballer.....
    Oh by the way...now that the football season is at hand, whatever you do...DONT
    boo an indigenous player...you may upset their feelings...after all these years playing football, getting
    the crap belted out of them on the field, a boo might upset them....
    Oh by the way boo all you like towards other players....doesnt matter...they couldnt care less....
     
  19. Moi621

    Moi621 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    @Gwendoline too

    They are all bought with the same money.



    You guys really need an :flagus: style of Separation of Powers :rant:
    so your choice of chief executive is not limited to the most bought, senior member
    of your 2 or 3 political parties.
    Why not a State Governor for Chief Executive.
    Why not a business person.
    The UnFree are limited to a chief executive who is most senile and bought per party.

    Australia deserves to be FREE
    Not UnFree.



    Moi
    :oldman:




    Canada-3.png
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2019
  20. LeftRightLeft

    LeftRightLeft Well-Known Member

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    Because we could end up with a moron like Trump.

    No we will stick with democracy, one person one vote. We will leave a system where ultimately the vote of a few hundred represents the vote of thousands to the US.
     
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  21. garry17

    garry17 Well-Known Member

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    you seem to be able to look it up, but clearly you don’t understand the definition.


    Really, I am wobbly on racism??? That is what I accuse you of but ok,

    You seem to be hung up on the word and not the action, wanting to try old “comprehension failure” argument. Since it is YOUR prejudice (oh look it is in your definition) then it is YOUR premise. Since YOU want to hold a bigotry that divides the world based entirely on heritage then it is for you to decide you bigotry. I can point to one, as clearly you discriminate against anybody white, since you did support the taunt, the depth of your racism, again that is up to you.

    So, you supported racist taunt, YES that makes you racist. You cannot address the points raised or even defend your racism so you attempt to contrive argument over terminology to defend the indefensible. You don’t like BOLT (any wonder), yet your just like him.
     
  22. Moi621

    Moi621 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You cannot elect a Governor Franklin Roosevelt
    You cannot elect a General Eisenhower.

    Got Democracy?
    Not Hardly!


    You can only elect the supreme leader of this or that party.
    And who paid his/her way?
    The Plutocracy! Money Power.
    And that is why your political parties are like a harmonious choir.
    Got choice? No!
    The Plutocracy rules a Parliamentary system
    easier than an :flagus: formatted separation of powers.

    We :flagus: :salute: can elect a Carter, Reagan, and even a Trump.
    And in all three cases, the swamp rat infested Congress opposed them.
    None of them had the true support of their party in Congress.
    Senator Teddy (it should have been me) Kennedy, a leader of Senate

    Democrats obstructed Carter better than the GOP.
    Wow, Teddy (it should have been me) Kennedy opposition to Carter reminded me

    of envious John (it should have been me) McCain.


    Because you might end up with a Trump
    you need the parliamentary system to moderate the will of the people? :hmm:
    Please explain or did I miss something. :)

    Moi :oldman:


    Don't :flagcanada:ize, :flagus:
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2019
  23. garry17

    garry17 Well-Known Member

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    Yes, to combat racism in all it's forms...
    Funny how the racist hang together pretending to be tolerant and moderate while crying against others for their bigotry...
     
  24. Monash

    Monash Well-Known Member

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    Mal Maninga's recent comments calling for a referendum on the national anthem were IMO at best thoughtless and at worst petulant. Everyone is entitled to an opinion about whether or not they think Advance Australia Fair (AAF) is a suitable choice for a national anthem, no problem there. However it just plain stupid to call for a referendum on the issue without first putting forward an alternate choice.

    So he doesn't think AAF is suitable fine, let's have a referendum - and replace it with what exactly? I Still Call Australia Home by Peter Allen, Smack My Bitch Up by the Prodigy?

    First step - how about some kind of informed national debate about alternate options like for example simply changing any lyrics in AAF that might some people might regard as having negative connotations. (About the the only one I can see is the line that goes - 'For those who've come across the seas.' which I concede could be construed seen as excluding the first Australians.) If that is unacceptable then conduct a proper search for viable alternatives.

    Last thing you want is a spur of the moment referendum on any topic with a simple yes or no answer with no clear alternate options laid out for voters to choose from. I believe kind of referendum is now called a 'Brexit' - and look how well that is going.
     
  25. garry17

    garry17 Well-Known Member

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    No matter where you go with this, people will look for the victim status. Thus, anything with an ambiguous state will find minorities who will find offence.
     

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