Sandy Hook- It's the guns fault, it's always the guns fault.

Why do you suppose the states "infringed" individual rights right from the start? They all ignored the Constitution?

 

Illegal Vehicles Banned in America

https://www.cheatsheet.com/automobiles/illegal-vehicles-banned-in-america.html/

 

Those are cars imported illegally and not up to the standards required or certified to be sold in the US.
Has nothing to do with the statement I made.

 

Point is, there are all kinds of things that are banned for safety reasons....endless laws on everything, including cars and including weapons.

Why gun people are against that makes little sense. They don't seem to mind the idea in regard to much else.

There have been laws and rules and regulations regarding arms since the beginning of this country, and long before.

It's nothing new.

 

So again you are saying the Sandy Hook shooter Adam Lanza (the shooter) and his mother (provider of guns, ammo, and related...) are the responsible parties in this tragic event. We agree again, Remington is not responsible.

 

It is the nature of the state to infringe individual rights. The Left used to know that.

 

Guns kill. Drugs kill. Food kills. Torpor kills. Gravity kills. But water kills more than all of them combined. In fact, H2O is the deadliest chemical compound on Earth. Water kills more people every year than all of the other chemical compounds combined. Water kills more people every year than war.

Water is just too dangerous to leave in civilian hands. Only those in government have the virtues required to responsibly handle water.

 

Remington is the provider. It's one of the facilitators. Along with the NRA, gun lobbyists, gun advocates in Congress, etc. They all share part of the blame. The shooter's mother is also a facilitator. But she paid for her negligence with her life. Remington profited from the shooting.

 

In America the state acts in the name of the people, but the people are obviously not the state.

 

I don't take right wing seriously about the law, Constitutional or otherwise. Natural rights, include defense of self and property are recognized in State Constitutions and available via Due Process not our Second Amendment.

 

It is a restriction on Government regarding the right of the People to keep and bear Arms for their State or the Union.

 

In America the people, through their representatives formed the USA, a nation state whose power is defined by our ratified constitution.
Nation states are things - not people. They are very dangerous things - surely you know that.

 

Even the most prominent leftist Constitutional scholars disagree with you.

"Laurence H. Tribe, a law professor at Harvard, said he had come to believe that the Second Amendment protected an individual right.
“My conclusion came as something of a surprise to me, and an unwelcome surprise,” Professor Tribe said. “I have always supported as a matter of policy very comprehensive gun control.”
THE NEW YORK TIMES, A Liberal Case for Gun Rights Sways Judiciary, By ADAM LIPTAKMAY 6, 2007.
https://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/06/us/06firearms.html

It is amazing how long it took Tribe and others to discover the obvious - the right to keep and bear arms is an individual right.

 

simply claiming that means nothing. you have to show the reasoning.

there are no individual terms in our Second Amendment. all terms are plural and collective.

 

Gun people are parents and normal people just like others, who are horrified by things like mass shootings. They also have their own interests and rights at stake here- every jackass that loses it and shoots people harms us all.

Guns ARE strongly regulated, and gun people are strongly in favor of many laws that could be added. The difference is that we look for things that work, things that address the causes. Guns don't cause murders- People do. The gun is like a thousand other things that can be used to kill- none of which act on their own, none of which have any malice or intent to harm you- but can in the hands of a deranged person. Why is it so hard to understand that the thing that allows murder is the mental state of the person- and that the intent can use any of those thousands of potential weapons?

Purchasing a gun requires a sworn statement responding to many questions, proof of identity, and a federal background check has to be cleared before the sale can be completed. You can't buy a gun if you have so much as a family disturbance in police records. However, guns ARE stolen, just as cash, computers and most everything else can be. We already have laws against that- but not adequate. Example-

If you steal a handgun, the average value will be around $400-$600 for something typical. By current law, that is petty theft in most states, where it turns to grand larceny at $1000. In most states, the penalty for petty theft is a misdemeanor charge. Most of those aren't even investigated; they are just noted, and if serial numbers are available they may be checked against recovered goods. In California- the fine is about $1000 for a petty theft, and usually no jail time. A thug could steal a gun a week, peddle it on the black market for perhaps $1000- and be making 51K a year doing it. Now if you falsify the information on your gun purchase application- that is a federal felony. One of the best things that could be done, and gun owners would approve, is to make the theft of a gun of any value a felony, make active investigation required, make jail time required. Nobody listens when that is suggested, however. Nor do they listen when we try to make reporting mentally unstable people in order to get them on the federal list of people who can't buy a gun. Being mentally deranged is a medical condition- so we can't tell anyone that a nutcase is next door until it's too late.

If we are going to make laws- lets make laws that work, laws that affect the problem- not just harass the honest people and soothe the panic fears of people who see guns the way some see snakes- as evil things whose intent is to stalk and kill them. So long as you promote the idea that removing guns will make people calm and sane, the wackos will continue to kill. You best hope they don't move to more effective methods of doing that, as the terrorists have.

 

Citing Tribe and leftist constitutional scholars in a report against bias from the NYT = game over.

Which is not say that you do not have right to your own opinion. You should email Tribe and point all his errors out to him.
Maybe he will change his mind.

 

Sincerely, I do thank you for taking the time to articulate your views on this. The only caveat that I have, is your mention of the addition of more laws...

IMHO, we have comprehensive laws already... & the prob. is that they are NOT being fully implemented! lets start there - if you please. As most of us know, this is a 'slippery slope' issue - to the max!

 

It's not about guns; it's about government. I trust my gun to protect me more than I trust my government to protect me. I trust that my gun is far less likely to be turned against me than I trust that my government won't be turned against me. In short, I trust my gun much more than I trust my government.

 

Huh?

Who is the state if not "the people"?

Who's on first, what's on second.....?

 

LOL! You think Thomas Paine was right wing?

How about Marx, Engels and lenin.?

“Furthermore, every state is a ‘special force for the suppression’ of the oppressed class. Consequently, every state is unfree and non-popular. Marx and Engels frequently explained this to their party comrades in the 1870s.” Lenin, The State and Revolution", VI Lenin, Penguin, 1992 P. 19.

Right wingers?

 

Really?

How did your gun protect the people at that Vegas concert?

How did anyone's?

Seems your trust in your gun protects people like Paddock more than it protects "the people".

 

The people are not part of the everyday operation of government unless they rise up to overthrow it, and when the do that it usually results in the installation of a tyrant.
The US was the exception to the rule because "America is a nation of laws [The COTUS] and not of men".

 

How are any of these laws not infringements?

 

You cannot ignore State Constitutions.

 

Felony
While state laws differ regarding penalties for gun theft, it is generally considered a serious crime. In many states, stealing a gun constitutes a grand theft, which is a felony regardless of the offender's criminal background or value of the gun. Such a law exists in California, Idaho, Arizona and Ohio, among other states.

Reporting Stolen Guns
Some states require gun owners to immediately file police reports if their firearms are lost or stolen. These laws aim to minimize the practice of buying guns to re-sell to people prohibited from owning guns. At least four U.S. states have these laws, including Michigan, New York, Ohio and Rhode Island. Owners who fail to file within the deadlines could face criminal penalties, fines and imprisonment, particularly if the gun is later used in the commission of a serious crime.