Melbourne nightclub shooting leaves one dead, three injured

Again: Unless you have an actual allergy, as in your body tries to defend itself to death if exposed, cannabis physically lacks the components necessary to effect your physiology in the sort of way that equates to a "hangover". It cannot contribute to a hangover from other substances, because it lacks the physical characteristics with which to do so.


Diverting off the whole? I'm pointing out that weed doesn't contribute to hangovers, even polypharmacy hangovers. Since your point included within itself that weed would contribute, the point fails so long as it includes that incorrect fact.
As stated: Cocaine booze and pills will all individually leave you hungover and when used in polypharmacy will magnify each other's effects toward the feeling of being hungover: Ie physical withdrawal symptoms, dehydration etc.

 

Give it up, no one cares.

 

And yet, here you are.

 

I think laws are about regulating behaviour in society. From that then laws which regulate the lawful ownership of firearms in society are valid. It's the content of those laws which matter.

 

Whoever claimed that is wrong. The situation in Australia and the US are so vastly different that comparisons and recommendations are definitely moot.

 

As for the drive-by. I'm going with organised crime.

 

Fully understood but many of your citizens love to tell us how we would do so much better if we adopted your gun laws.

 

Here, laws are about protecting the rights of the peple.
From that, guns laws must also reflect the rights of said people, and limit them only when absolutely necessary to do so - with "absolutely" and "necessary" being the key words.

 

I can't believe someone would actually take a single gun crime committed in Australia and use it as argument against our gun laws. No-one argues that US laws should change because of a single shooting. They argue that point on the basis National gun crime statistics that have been of verified and collated. You want to compare Australian and US gun crime rates go ahead but do it using reasoned analysis not the intellectual equivalent of a brain fart.

 

Why not turnabout is fair play, there are a few Australians in this forum who have no problems using killings in the U.S. to hammer us with how great their gun laws are and how such has prevented killings from happening in their country.

Of course they ignore the cultural and societal differences between the two countries as that would dilute their anti-gun narrative.

 

If that were true, the anti-gun left would be silent.

 

When the laws infringe upon the fundamental rights of people who have committed no crime then the law is not about "regulating behavior" but imposing draconian government on the people. Responsible firearms ownership is, in fact, a beneficial behavior for society... unless the government is seeking to grow its power over that society.

Laws against the criminal misuse of guns are fine. Laws which restrict the self-defense rights of those who have committed no crime are amoral and unacceptable.

 

Seems gangs are increasingly getting violent.

This is where a multicultural society is not working so well.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/04/world/australia/gang-violence-melbourne-turnbull.html

https://www.aljazeera.com/programmes/101east/2019/01/australia-african-gangs-190109093042022.html

While the OP shooting appears to be motorcycle gang related.

 

If I accept your initial premise - and I do because I've got no knowledge to the contrary - then I have to accept the argument which follows.

Here - my country - there is no recognised right to a firearm. But as has been pointed out before, people can legally obtain firearms (they can illegally obtain them to but that's criminal behaviour and outside the scope of the present discussion).

The different situations reflect the different historical development and culture of two different countries. That's why I will maintain my position that what works for us may not work for others and it is foolish to think it will.

 

As my signature line points out, Australia has been a multicultural society since European colonisation/settlement/invasion. It's been pretty successful although that's from an Anglo-Irish-Australian point of view, Indigenous people may see it differently.

 

Have many of the aboriginal people integrated with White society?

 

No, only the those who aren't reliant on facts as the basis for their argument would be silent - and if they don't have any then arguably their opinions are of little value anyway. In the end it doesn't matter what side of the gun (or any other) debate you are on. If you have any integrity at all you research your topic, marshal your facts and develop your arguments. What you don't do is lie, dissemble, troll or use 'straw man' etc arguments to support your case. There are very sound arguments for gun legislation reform in the US - note the use of the word of 'reform' rather than 'ban'. There may also be sound arguments against such reform, if so marshal them.

 

If we 'hammer' you on this topic its because, on an annualized basis the number the mass shootings in the US is far and away higher than the equivalent number in our own country. Per head of population you simply have far more gun deaths from all causes than we do - this is simply a fact, not opinion. Of course it dosen't help that Australians on average are way more interested and informed on events in the US than US citizens are interested or informed about issues in Australia.

To be clear, 2 gun deaths in Australia (a second person died as a result of the incident in question) is not 'turnabout' for the scores of people who died via gun related incidents in the US that same day. A single death over here via gun crime does not 'justify' whatever the daily total is in the US on the day in question. The simple truth remains that the US has far more deaths due ti gun crime than Australia or any other country in the Western World as a % of its total population. If you don't like that fact then it's up to your citizens to change the situation, not criticize the citizens of friends and allies (and we are long time friends and allies) for pointing this fact out.

 

That's a flat out lie exposed by the fact you are totally clueless as to the firearm regulations and laws we already in existence, the number of which is more than enough to greatly reduce the amount of firearm related crimes.

 

There is no need what so ever for any additional legislative reform pertaining to firearms in the U.S., we already have an over abundance of firearm regulations and laws, that if enforced, would greatly lower the number of firearm related crimes and deaths.

The problem is they are not being enforced, so the problem continues, and the anti-s and those such as yourself who do not understand our laws, demand even more regulations and laws which will also go unenforced and as such the problem will continue.

This is not a theory, it has actually been tried and had excellent results in reducing firearm related crimes and deaths as documented by the U.S. Department of Justice.

https://www.crimesolutions.gov/ProgramDetails.aspx?ID=413

 

In the entire history of both the united states and the nation of Australia, has there ever been a point when such has not been the case? Has there ever been a recorded period in the history of the nation of Australia where its recorded levels of violence either met or eclipsed the levels of the united states?

If not, then there is no legitimate comparison to be made between the two.

 

Huh.
What would you say about a side of an argument that can only support its positions with fallacious appeals to emotion, ignorance and/or dishonesty, and refuses to accept facts that run contrary to its narrative?

As soon as I see one, it will be the first time.

 

In the US, this averages out to about 22 murders per year, out of about 15,600 annual murders - 0.14%
Indeed, the least likely way to be murdered in the US is in a mass shooting.

 

Care to guess how many US states have a murder rate as low as Australia? This is really really easy because it is a very, very low number. Like really low.

In fact, we are doing about the same as a bunch of much less multicultural nations in Europe.

Our multicultural society appears to be working quite well. Maybe the focus of your concerns isn't really the problem.

 

It matters not, we are not living in Australia.