Religion Causes War?

Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by Paul7, May 18, 2019.

  1. Paul7

    Paul7 Well-Known Member

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    Interesting item I came across in Wikipedia. Only 123 out of 1,763 known/recorded historical conflicts had religion as their primary cause, which is 6.98%. Take out Islam and the figure drops in half.

    "A religious war or holy war (Latin: bellum sacrum) is a war primarily caused or justified by differences in religion. In the modern period, debates are common over the extent to which religious, economic, or ethnic aspects of a conflict predominate in a given war. According to the Encyclopedia of Wars, out of all 1,763 known/recorded historical conflicts, 123, or 6.98%, had religion as their primary cause.[1] Matthew White's The Great Big Book of Horrible Things gives religion as the cause of 13 of the world's 100 deadliest atrocities.[2] In several conflicts including the Israeli–Palestinian conflict, the Syrian civil war, and the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, religious elements are overtly present but variously described as fundamentalism or religious extremism—depending upon the observer's sympathies. However, studies on these cases often conclude that ethnic animosities drive much of the conflicts.[3]

    Some historians argue that what is termed "religious wars" is a largely "Western dichotomy" and a modern invention from the past few centuries, arguing that all wars that are classed as "religious" have secular (economic or political) ramifications.[4] Similar opinions were expressed as early as the 1760s, during the Seven Years' War, widely recognized to be "religious" in motivation, noting that the warring factions were not necessarily split along confessional lines as much as along secular interests.[5]

    According to Jeffrey Burton Russell, numerous cases of supposed acts of religious wars such as the Thirty Years' War, the French Wars of Religion, the Sri Lankan Civil War, 9/11 and other terrorist attacks, the Bosnian War, and the Rwandan Civil Warwere all primarily motivated by social, political, and economic issues rather than religion.[6]"
     
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  2. JakeStarkey

    JakeStarkey Well-Known Member

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    Yes, religion can cause war.
     
    Last edited: May 18, 2019
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  3. btthegreat

    btthegreat Well-Known Member

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    Oh I agree with this. Almost nothing significant happens on a large scale without a complex process that includes layers of motives, intentions and tensions by a lot of diverse players. To simplify history, we tend to rush to one or two and skip the rest. There are ethnic, secular, religious, and economic reasons, and lets not forget all the Machiavellian self-interested political undercurrents that drive what happens in a royal house, a Czar's family, in a Prime Minister's cabinet and in the halls of the Vatican. We sure as hell cannot forego the role of personal ego, pride, greed, vindictiveness and vanity among major decision-makers.

    We cannot say that religion is not a significant factor in war, and peace. Yes, clerics of all faiths have fomented the fires of war, vengence and slaughter, but they have also condemned those fires of war, and offered sermons of peace, healing and forgiveness.


    None of this is simple.
     
    Last edited: May 18, 2019
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  4. Kokomojojo

    Kokomojojo Well-Known Member

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    Gubmints caused and will continue to cause far more war than religion could even imagine.
     
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  5. Swensson

    Swensson Devil's advocate

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    Yeah, the role that religion plays in war is rarely to spark it. Religion is malleable, and as long as there are no other tensions, religion sees no reason to be aggressive towards others. Islam, which many people call violent, can coexist peacefully with other religions if there aren't other tensions across those same lines.

    However, religion can deepen animosities. Because religion is malleable, when another reason for war turns up, people find new interpretations of the texts and then convince themselves that those interpretations are unwavering and true. It convinces people that disputes are not just tensions over whatever economic or social dispute actually sparked the war, but fundamental and irreconcilable differences of morality.

    It also broadens war. Given the point above, it gets easier to escalate disputes on a international level. The Thirty Years' War may have been sparked by economic factors, but it would never have dragged so many nations into it if it wasn't for religion (and probably not across the same lines). Similarly, Palestine/Israel could have been a local conflict, but because of religion, it sparks interest in people from Pakistan to the US. The Crusades were based in local conflict, until the Pope issued a religious missive.

    Of course, religion is not the only thing that does this. You can see similar tendencies in patriotism, communism, and pretty much any such philosophy.
     
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  6. Bezukhov

    Bezukhov Active Member

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    What has religion done to prevent wars?
     
    Last edited: May 20, 2019
  7. perdidochas

    perdidochas Well-Known Member

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    Very rarely. Mostly religion is used as an excuse for a war that would happen with or without religion. Without religion, we would still have war.
     
  8. xwsmithx

    xwsmithx Well-Known Member

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    I wish I could think of the book and author, but I read a fascinating book on human behavior once that essentially said that splitting up into us v. them is innate, that we do it automatically, and if we don't have any legitimate differences (race, ethnicity, nationality, religion, etc.), we'll invent some so that we have something to fight about. Jonathan Swift noted this in a more amusing way when he had his Lilliputians fighting with Blefuscudians based on which end of the egg they break to eat the contents out of. Gulliver ended the war by going over to the Big Ender's island and dragging all their ships over to the Little Ender's island. So even if there were no religion, we'd still have war.
     
  9. Diuretic

    Diuretic Well-Known Member

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    It might facilitate war. But it might also set limits. Aquinas wrote of a "just war" in his Summa, I think though that he may have been following earlier thinkers such as St. Augustine, not sure of that one.
     
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  10. JakeStarkey

    JakeStarkey Well-Known Member

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    No, it is not. Religion does cause war.
     
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  11. perdidochas

    perdidochas Well-Known Member

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    Rarely. It's just the convenient excuse or proxy for the most part. For example the whole Protestant vs. Catholic thing in Northern Ireland was primarily ethnic, but they blamed it on religion.
     
  12. JakeStarkey

    JakeStarkey Well-Known Member

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    No, not rarely, as history educates us.
     
  13. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Even many wars that were ostensibly about religion on the surface were actually about other deeper underlying political/economic factors, which just tended to go along the lines of religion. Religion was just a factor that made those divides visible.
    That was true both in Sri Lanka and Ireland.
     
    Last edited: May 20, 2019
  14. JakeStarkey

    JakeStarkey Well-Known Member

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    Religous difference are often at the botton of wars, and the economc and political differences simply reveal them.
     
    Last edited: May 20, 2019
  15. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Why would you say that? Don't you mean the reverse?
     
  16. Distraff

    Distraff Well-Known Member

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    The leaders of course have political reasons for going to war but will use religion as an excuse to get their populations to better fight for them. The problem with religion is people will have blind faith in these ancient teachings that were really created by flawed ancient with some good and bad ideas. This can hold a culture back when people take backwards ideas as faith and reduce cultural and social evolution and progress. Interpretation can be a two-edged sword. In some cases it can result in people interpreting away the worst parts, but others over-interpreting the bad parts and using that as inspiration for blind faith in evil. The best solution is to eliminate faith and require reason and evidence for all claims and critically ask what is really best for society.
     
  17. JakeStarkey

    JakeStarkey Well-Known Member

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    It's true. Think the division of India and the Pakistans. Think the contrasting spiritual world views of the Spaniards and the Aztecas.
     
    Last edited: May 20, 2019
  18. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The muslims there gave the Hindus no other choice.
    Even today persecution against non-muslims is still going on there. Read about the case of Asia Bebi.

    If I was a Hindu I would have gotten the f---- out of there, and closed off the border.
     
    Last edited: May 20, 2019
  19. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You mean one had a bloodlust for human sacrifice? Ripping out hearts from the chest and tossing the bodies to bounce and roll down the steep steps of the pyramid.

    Many of the surrounding subjugated tribes were happy to ally with the Spanish to defeat the Aztecs.

    This wasn't that long after the Spanish had just fought off the muslims, mind you.

    I think it was fair for them to come into the situation with a few religious prejudices.
     
    Last edited: May 20, 2019
  20. JakeStarkey

    JakeStarkey Well-Known Member

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    kaze makes the argument for religious world view as the cause with political and social effects as symptoms
     
  21. CourtJester

    CourtJester Well-Known Member

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    Religion may or may not cause the majority of wars but it is a fact that it does cause some wars and has never prevented a war.

    I think that proves conclusively that on the world stage religion is a negative rather than a positive force.
     
  22. JakeStarkey

    JakeStarkey Well-Known Member

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    "and has never prevented a war" is an unproven, and imo, a silly, statement.
     
  23. Paul7

    Paul7 Well-Known Member

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    Rarely, according to the OP.
     
  24. Paul7

    Paul7 Well-Known Member

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    Better atheism, whose regimes killed 100,000,000, huh?
     
  25. CourtJester

    CourtJester Well-Known Member

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    Glad to see that you agree that religion has never stopped a war. A good start at actually measuring the value of religion on the world stage.

    And while athiest regimes do start wars the wars are not about promoting athiesm which is different from the wars started for the purpose of advancing a particular religion.
     
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