Ask your difficult questions of an Atheist.

Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by tecoyah, May 24, 2019.

  1. ARDY

    ARDY Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    This response implies there is something OTHER than a human perspective
    Which implies that someone (perhaps you) is cognizant of that non human perspective
    Which, i guess, would make you a bit of an authority
    And, i am guessing, would make you qualified to tell others how GOD wants them to live their lives
    Which would make you pretty special
     
  2. Paul7

    Paul7 Well-Known Member

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    Correct.

    Nope, just one begger telling another where to find bread.
     
  3. ARDY

    ARDY Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Could you please clarify what is the truth about the bible and how you know what you claim to know about the bible. And, lets be clear.... even if you exclude atheist views; even if you exclude people who are (or were) non religious simply because they never heard of the bible; even if you exclude people like hindus who are differently religious..... in other words, even if you only ask abrahamic religious people : What does the bible say, and how do you know it is true... you will get all sorts of answers.... you will get mormon answers, you will get jewish answers, you will get different versions of jewish answers, you will get “young earth” answers, you will get papal catholic answers, you will get gnostic answers, you will get westboro baptist church answers, you will get unitarian answers, you will get deist answers, you will get prosperity gospel answers... and many many more different answers from people, each of whom are convinced that they have a a specially unique connection to the truth of god. So what makes you think that YOUR view of god and the bible is more accurate than the huge number of people who have equally strong views that disagree with your views?

    , if GOD sent us a message, he has clearly sent it in such an ambiguous way has provoked ongoing disagreement about what exactly is the message. And IF that is true...which it certainly is... then it is reasonable to either conclude that god is inept.... or does not exist.... or if he does exist, most of the people claiming to be in touch with him are deluding themselves and others
     
  4. ARDY

    ARDY Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    From your response, you have confirmed that your view of god is that god is telling us how to live
    That you understand what god is telling us about how to live
    And that you are therefore qualified to tell us how god wants us to live

    Speaking for myself, and I think many others
    We are not convinced there is a god
    If there is a god, we are not convinced that the bible is written, nor inspired by God, nor is it any sort of guide to his wishes
    If there is a god, we are not convinced that you have any special knowledge of god or of gods wishes

    With all respect, none of us want to deny you the opportunity to live your own life according to your understanding of gods wishes. Perhaps we appreciate your kindness in attempting to share this special knowledge
    But, you should know that many people Like you have similarly attempted to share their special knowledge... and after due consideration, we decline you generous offers.
    We would appreciate it if you would finally accept our decision to decline your offer
    And you should understand that our decision is made with a full understanding of the consequences that may ensue ... and never the less we still decline the offer
    Further, we hope that you will understand if we oppose the idea that our mutual government should be structured based upon your unique (and in our view flawed) understanding of gods will.
    .
     
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  5. Robert E Allen

    Robert E Allen Banned

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    I don't agree with your chareterizations about about what is going on in this regard.

    Yes people have different views about many issues. The question is, what does the bible say about A or Z? The bible is a big book and there is a lot in it. Therr are many different forms of writting in it. It contains history, alagory, poetry, music, letters between people and groups of people and it contains revalation .
    No one is going to get everything right.
    However since the reformation, mass printing and increased literacy and in no small part archeology people have access to the ancient texts and languages. We have more and accurate information about the bible except for the people who lived it.

    So why do people have varying ideas? For several reasons. Most of them disagree because agreeing with the bible is uncomfortable and challenges their own desires, or they want to placate changing societies
    Very few are the differences in textual translation. The biggest being that of the Confession of the apostle Peter which Catholics believe sets up the Papacy.

    Then there are are other sects that emphasize certain aspects .
    Then there are some nutcases like the Westboro types.

    Anyway most of the churches i have been apart of have been Evangelical and every single one of them believed that individual study of the bible as it was written was the paramount objective. The pastors invariably wanted their members to read, study and come to their own coclusions. After all it's not about attending a church, giving money or any of that stuff . It's all about developing a personal relationship with God. I can't speak for other types of Christian sects.
     
  6. ARDY

    ARDY Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Yes, but the fact is there are widely divergent attitude, interpretation, and emphasis among all sorts of various people. Just to take a single example.... some people call young earthers... they are certain the earth is perhaps 6000 years old. Or another example... i think the pope accepts some versions of evolution.... where as many Christians totally reject evolution.

    Some people propose there was a historical adam and eve, or lazarus, or jonah and the whale, or samson, or parting of the red sea, or noahs ark. Jews do not think jesus was messiah, and muslims have their own views. I doubt that you would agree with gnostics, or mormons, or jehovas witness, or Christian scientist, or unitarian.... all these people may have views that you reject despite their sincerity. And the diversity of those opinions leads me to question how anyone could confidently give me an assurance that only they have a correct answer from god himself

    Certainly true if we agree that religion is everyones best guess, But that is not what is proposed

    But this is very strange... people have lived for thousands of years with out that technology, with bad translations ... if god wanted to convey a message... why has he done this so poorly until the modern time? Surely he could have waited a couple thousand more years until jesus message could be filmed,
    Or if necessary, if the body of jesus was actually resurrected... why not let him live on as the jewish messiah...

    Surely this did not come as a surprise to god
    And given all that you said.... what assurance would lead me to believe any one of those diverse messages. From what I understand of the very early church, i think virtually none of those Christians would agree with your ideas... for instance, all of the earliest christians would be jewish followers of the jewish law... and i doubt that you are.....

    This by itself is huge... and the papacy has certainly evolved over time
    One person’s nutcase is another person’s religion
    Not true. Orthodoxy long taught that priests taught correct dogma... in fact the whole reason to have a creed was to insure orthodoxy.... in fact, before the king james bible people were executed for translating the bible.

    Tyndale was influenced by the work of Desiderius Erasmus, who made the Greek New Testament available in Europe, and by Martin Luther.[2] A number of partial translations had been made from the seventh century onward, but the spread of Wycliffe's Bible in the late 14th century led to the death penalty for anyone found in unlicensed possession of Scripture in English​

    before luther in the ... latin and greek. was the only bible available... and what ever the language, most people were illiterate and could not read or interpret the bible.

    Even today, listen to any tv evangelist and you will see them telling us how we should interpret the bible

    If you have a personal, relationship with god....perhaps you should allow others the same liberty. And my personal relationship with god allows eating pork, eating shellfish, gay marriage and abortion
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2019
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  7. Paul7

    Paul7 Well-Known Member

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    I'm sorry to hear that, but it is no different than many who witnesses Jesus' ministry. See how that works out for you. We can choose our way, but we can't choose the result.
     
  8. Paul7

    Paul7 Well-Known Member

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    The Bible doesn't say how old the earth is, the question isn't an essential of the faith. What Christians don't believe is that nothing x nobody = everything.

    Jesus was one of those, He believed in a literal Adam, Jonah, and Noah.

    If there can be no truth, than why is your opinion any more valid than anyone else's?

    Here is one explanation to your question:
     
  9. Paul7

    Paul7 Well-Known Member

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    Not the same things.
     
  10. The Wyrd of Gawd

    The Wyrd of Gawd Well-Known Member

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    Isn't it strange that the Jews base their calendar on the biblical fairy tale? According to them it is the year 5779.

    6000 Year Timeline Plan
    http://www.end-times-prophecy.org/6000-7000-year-timeline-prophecy.html
     
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  11. The Wyrd of Gawd

    The Wyrd of Gawd Well-Known Member

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    The conclusion I have reached from years of discussing the biblical fairy tale is that it is pure "evil". The main characters are despicable people with the morals of skunks. They were all lunatics, with the possible exception of Job. Job is just a normal guy who is trying to cope with adversity and get his life back on track. All of the other characters are scum.
     
  12. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    First, it is Christianity that claims there was nothingness. Science does not make that claim. Christianty claims that "nothing x god = everything".

    Next, you use nobody when nobody has to do with there being no people. You don't just mean that there was no person or no consciousness, or whatever. Christianity believes there is an infinitely powerful and knowledgable entity that ginned up our universe out of nothing.

    If you believe there was nothing and the your infinitely powerful god made the universe, then be up front about it and just say "God did it".

    As for your vid, he's trying to prove his religion is best. I don't see the part about the imam as being surprising as Islam reveres Jesus as the prophet second only to Muhammad. And, evidence related to whether he died or rose from the dead is ancient anecdote.

    But, the main point is that arguments between Islam and Christianity aren't a step toward evidence of there being a supernatural.

    I would rather see us take a direction that involves better understanding of when we should use a scientiic approach and when it is ok to use a religious approach. The primary problems arise when we use the wrong tools.

    That is important, because it will lead toward less conflict and better answers to our questions.
     
  13. Dissily Mordentroge

    Dissily Mordentroge Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Scum or blameless victims of an unpredictable, sadistic deity.
     
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  14. ARDY

    ARDY Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    And yet a very large number of Christians believe that the genealogy history presented in the bible is comprehensive and as accurate as claims about noahs ark.... and from that genealogy the calculate the age of the earth.... and even if that ludicrous calculation was off by a factor of 10, pr even 100, pr even 1,000, or even 10,000... it still would not be close to being correct... which makes young earthers AND the bible wrong if you take it literally



    Which is why i dont take all that much stock in what people say that jesus that jesus said

    Does anyone really believe this?
    Jesus said as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the great fish or the whale, so the Son of Man will be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth,
    ... or the story of noah loading animals on to an ark, before a world wide flood​
    I am pretty sure that not even most Christians believe this
    Although, tellingly, you seem to believe it all
     
  15. Renee

    Renee Well-Known Member

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    They also don’t pay 10 times what we pay for drugs
     
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  16. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    What causes atheists to be so intolerant of religion? It seems to me atheists should simply smile and ignore religious issues. Why the intolerance?
     
  17. tecoyah

    tecoyah Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    In my experience most atheists (myself included) don't really think of religions or Gods until prompted or pushed to do so...usually by a Christian who does not like our existence. Much as yoyur question just did, we either answer questions, point out false opinions stated as fact or defend our position of disbelief. The VAST majority of what you perceive is the result of a persecution complex that for some reason makes hard core Christians believe we are some evil threat for not accepting their chosen deity. I only point out Christians because they are the only ones doing so...Muslims would just kill us.
     
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  18. Renee

    Renee Well-Known Member

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    You seem to be showing intolerance toward atheists. Why don’t you just simply smile and ignore their areligious views..why the intolerance.
     
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  19. Renee

    Renee Well-Known Member

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    No , Muslims would not just kill you. Shame on you
     
  20. tecoyah

    tecoyah Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    That was a joke, dear.
     
  21. Renee

    Renee Well-Known Member

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    Sorry, I should have seen that. I didn’t realize it was you ...sweetie pie
     
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  22. yguy

    yguy Well-Known Member

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    Sure, you started this thread in this subforum thinking you'd never encounter any of that. :yawn:
    lol
     
  23. tecoyah

    tecoyah Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Actually, I started this thread to accomplish exactly what I have and certainly expected to encounter what has happened...that was part of the point. As there are several "ask a Christian" threads in which the questions are dodged and remain unanswered, I wanted to do the opposite here and have done so....every single question has been answered in honest detail (unless I missed one).
     
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  24. Kokomojojo

    Kokomojojo Well-Known Member

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    Nah now thats not really all that true.

    You dodged my question.

    You never did explain away the atheist contradiction.

    The brag that atheism is based in 'reason' and 'logic' despite that its impossible to be an atheist by reason and logic, but by 'faith' alone one is an atheist, believers, just like those theist people.
     
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2019
  25. Derideo_Te

    Derideo_Te Well-Known Member

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    That is NOT a question!

    Furthermore it is not a contradiction either.

    Instead it is just an inane theist PROJECTION of their own inability to reconcile reason and logic with their superstitious beliefs onto those who actually do know how to use reason and logic.
     
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