Any Study Of 'Gun Violence' Should Include How Guns Save Lives

Discussion in 'Gun Control' started by 6Gunner, May 9, 2019.

  1. Monash

    Monash Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2019
    Messages:
    4,516
    Likes Received:
    3,138
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Provided you organized it on a State wide basis you could perhaps record statistics on gun related violence re; firearms registered to specific addresses/owners against persons who are not family members/occupants of the same address vs guns used by registered owners against people who are family members/occupants of the same address (i.e domestic violence related incidents).

    The problem is the number of incidents where a registered owner uses a firearm to defend himself or another at home against an external aggressor will be far outweighed by the number of crimes committed against family members. The evidence is pretty much rock solid that you are far more likely to be killed by a member of your own family or someone you know well than a complete stranger. So I don't think such stats would help the pro-gun argument much. In act the opposite.

    And you can't capture stats on incidents that don't happen because they won't ever be recorded. Doesn't matter if it's car accidents or firearm use. A 'near miss' in either is a non-statistic.
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2019
  2. dagosa

    dagosa Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2010
    Messages:
    22,147
    Likes Received:
    5,897
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Why don’t we have the fewest gun deaths, we already have the most guns per capita. Your solution doesn’t work. The nra story line is joke on gullible conservatives.
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2019
  3. Xenamnes

    Xenamnes Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2015
    Messages:
    23,895
    Likes Received:
    7,537
    Trophy Points:
    113
    The supposed "evidence" being referred to on the part of yourself has been read, and it does not say what is being claimed on the part of yourself. Rather then evidence shows that those who are engaged in and predisposed towards criminal activity are more likely to be killed than those who are not. The supposed "evidence" even admits to such being the case.
     
  4. Xenamnes

    Xenamnes Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2015
    Messages:
    23,895
    Likes Received:
    7,537
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Because the united states plays host to a significant portion of the population that is predisposed towards violence against others. Until such individuals are actually removed from the equation, either by lifetime incarceration, or outright death, nothing will ever change no matter what firearm-related restrictions are attempted.
     
  5. dagosa

    dagosa Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2010
    Messages:
    22,147
    Likes Received:
    5,897
    Trophy Points:
    113
    You live in a dream world of nightmares of fear. Yes, the vast majority of people go through every day without carrying a gun.
    You’re several times more likely to get shot if you carry a gun.
    You’re definitely more likely to shoot your mouth off if you carry all the time.
     
  6. Xenamnes

    Xenamnes Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2015
    Messages:
    23,895
    Likes Received:
    7,537
    Trophy Points:
    113
    It is not fear. It is reality. Individuals are the problem, not firearms. And until such time the laws of the united states reflect and address such, nothing can be done to improve the situation.

    Speculation.

    According to available data, such only applies to individuals who are actually inclined and predisposed to engaging in illegal activity.

    Demonstrate the evidence of such a claim. There is no proof of such to be found.
     
  7. dagosa

    dagosa Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2010
    Messages:
    22,147
    Likes Received:
    5,897
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Hmmmm, that’s why we have universal BCs; to help keep the scary individuals that you’re afraid of from getting guns.
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2019
  8. dagosa

    dagosa Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2010
    Messages:
    22,147
    Likes Received:
    5,897
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gunners demonstrate it every time they whine and complain . about gun regulations being the end of the world. Gee, regulations are tougher in California then in most, and all they’ve managed to do is be in the top six in least gun violence and raise their economy to 5 th in the world. You’d think everyone would be leaving with gun crimes so low.
     
  9. dagosa

    dagosa Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2010
    Messages:
    22,147
    Likes Received:
    5,897
    Trophy Points:
    113
    You think more people carry a gun then don’t ? You’re really a strange dude.

    “Researchers at Stanford University in California published a study last November that found constitutional carry laws can be tied to an increase in violent crime, including robbery and murder.”

    https://news.stanford.edu/2014/11/14/donohue-guns-study-111414/
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2019
  10. Turtledude

    Turtledude Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2015
    Messages:
    30,265
    Likes Received:
    20,249
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Your solution is based on dishonesty. You clearly don't care about solving violent crime-you want to punish gun owners due to your seething hatred of Trump. When you say our solutions are not working-you are referring to NOT WORKING TO HARASS lawful gun ownership
     
  11. Well Bonded

    Well Bonded Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2018
    Messages:
    9,049
    Likes Received:
    4,354
    Trophy Points:
    113
    dagosa is a member who can only proffer hatred, with no solutions.

    A typical anti-gunner.
     
    Turtledude likes this.
  12. dagosa

    dagosa Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2010
    Messages:
    22,147
    Likes Received:
    5,897
    Trophy Points:
    113
    We have 300 million guns, more then anyother nation percapita.
    We have the largest incident of gun deaths in the developed world . It doesn’t work.
     
  13. dagosa

    dagosa Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2010
    Messages:
    22,147
    Likes Received:
    5,897
    Trophy Points:
    113
    The sure sign of someone on the losing end of an argument is, you stop talking about facts and start talking about “feelings.” Laughable. Wow, only a tinker bell whines and complains about hurting your little feelings. Boo boo.
     
  14. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    May 15, 2017
    Messages:
    34,613
    Likes Received:
    11,199
    Trophy Points:
    113
    And more diversity than any other country in the developed world.

    Now, why are we only looking at gun homicide rates in the developed world?
    That seems to be a bit of cherry picking. Plenty of "less developed" countries with higher gun homicide rates.
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2019
  15. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    May 15, 2017
    Messages:
    34,613
    Likes Received:
    11,199
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I think though if we view the U.S. as a conjoined twin, a First World country joined together with a Third World country, coexisting as one, a lot of these otherwise paradoxical statistics will start making more sense, and the U.S. will stop being an outlier on the graph compared to other countries.
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2019
  16. An Taibhse

    An Taibhse Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2016
    Messages:
    7,238
    Likes Received:
    4,819
    Trophy Points:
    113
    When he refers to ‘your solutions’ not working in a gun control discussion, it should be remembered gun control legislation has largely been crafted by the Left and GCAs. Like their education, economic and social solutions, most evident in Leftist enclaves like the California and Chicago big Cons, big promises delivering big failures to all but the few exempt elites.
     
    Turtledude likes this.
  17. dagosa

    dagosa Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2010
    Messages:
    22,147
    Likes Received:
    5,897
    Trophy Points:
    113
    85 th out of nearly 160 nation’s ? Lot of “developed” nations ahead of us.
    Nope. You just made up another snow job hoping no one would check. No wonder the right is so “unbelievable”. Facts mean little it seems
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_ranked_by_ethnic_and_cultural_diversity_level
     
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2019
  18. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    May 15, 2017
    Messages:
    34,613
    Likes Received:
    11,199
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Sounds about halfway in the middle, about average for the world.
     
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2019
  19. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    May 15, 2017
    Messages:
    34,613
    Likes Received:
    11,199
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Show me a country anywhere with lots of racial diversity (but not East Asian diversity) that has a lower gun homicide rate than the US.
     
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2019
    Turtledude likes this.
  20. Monash

    Monash Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2019
    Messages:
    4,516
    Likes Received:
    3,138
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Oh for heavens sake the 'supposed evidence' for what I assume you would call 'supposed domestic violence' in the US is readily available for all to see, as are the figures from the rest of the developed world. If you seriously want to argue against the proposition I raised i.e.that the number of incidents where firearms were used to save the lives of American households from external threats is far exceeded by the number of incidents where firearms held in the home were used internally against other occupants (which is what I said) then you do the research.

    For the rest and to be clear - although I expect in your case that is pointless. I simply stated that gathering stats on incidents where a firearm saved lives but there were no injuries is going to be extremity difficult to do because they wont usually be recorded as firearm incidents. For example a prowler who is scared off because the home owner was seen to be armed. Note again I am not even arguing that firearms can't save lives in such circumstances, just that it's always going to be difficult to gather figures on such incidents unless someone is actually injured or killed.
     
    Well Bonded likes this.
  21. Xenamnes

    Xenamnes Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2015
    Messages:
    23,895
    Likes Received:
    7,537
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Such a proposal still fails to address the matter properly, as such still addresses the firearm, not the individual that will seek to misuse a firearm.

    Beyond that matter, such proposals have proven to be useless at preventing access to firearms by prohibited individuals. Such proposals simply do not work and are too easily ignored without any consequence, even in the state of California where all firearms are actually registered and able to be traced.

    Until a proposal is presented on the part of yourself that addresses the individuals that actually misuse firearms, rather than the firearms themselves, there is nothing of substance to be discussed.
     
  22. dagosa

    dagosa Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2010
    Messages:
    22,147
    Likes Received:
    5,897
    Trophy Points:
    113
    We have a proposal that works everywhere. Stronger gun laws and a good dose or realism for frighten gun clutches.
     
  23. Xenamnes

    Xenamnes Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2015
    Messages:
    23,895
    Likes Received:
    7,537
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Exactly how does complaining about being targeted for harassment amount to one shooting their mouth off? Explain such.

    Except for the simple fact that such is not the case. The firearm-related restrictions of the state of California have not done anything to benefit public safety, as said restrictions are easily ignored and violated, even when it pertains to registered firearms sold within the state itself.

    So other than the impotent diversion on the part of yourself, there is nothing actually presented other than the complaint about firearm owners complaining when they are subjected to pointless restrictions, and claiming that somehow such amounts to them shooting their mouth off.
     
  24. dagosa

    dagosa Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2010
    Messages:
    22,147
    Likes Received:
    5,897
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Like 84 other countries are more diverse.
     
  25. Xenamnes

    Xenamnes Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2015
    Messages:
    23,895
    Likes Received:
    7,537
    Trophy Points:
    113
    There is no actual proof to the contrary.

    Not only is such not relevant to the discussion, the supposed "study" is based on deliberately false information. The words "suggest" and "estimate" are used extensively throughout, demonstrating that those presenting the notion are merely guessing and cannot actually demonstrate real proof. The language utilized indicates it is all speculation devoid of anything resembling actual evidence that can easily be cited.
     

Share This Page