IVF couples could be able to choose the ‘smartest’ embryo

having ADHD, having brown eyes instead of blue, these are all things the unborn are eventually going to get terminated for

aborting because the fetus was a male instead of a female

And then we'll be back to the Pro-Choice argument and women will claim it's their "right".

 

Disease forms a different argumet.

That's a valid topic of discussion, but this thread was not about that case.

"Smartest Embryo" is not an identification of disease.

 

That is a substantially different argument than what prochoice is about today.

I agree we're going to be faced with that kind of problem at some point. And, it's not going to be easy.

 

Women have already been aborting their fetuses in China and India because it was a girl.

related thread: So to tell me pro-choicers, is gendercide okay too?
Pro-Choicers, when pressed, said in that thread that it should be the woman's decision.

 

Yes. The issue IS here today to some degree.

Do you think that the logical response in China to their "one child" laws should override the personal decisions of women in America?

 

Please explain where in this thread I've argued that killing embryos in an abortion or killing them in IVF are different. I've not made such an argument because...once again...they have nothing to do with this topic.

 

Actually China seems like a perfect example. The CRISPR kids are Chinese.

 

Wait, you are suddenly interested in the topic now, and not abortion?

So are you saying it's unethical to for parents to choose the smartest embryo?

 

No, I and others pointed that out.

It does pertain. They both involve killing embryos. Today, many states are passing laws to make abortion illegal. And, there is no ethical reason for those laws to allow IVF facilities to destroy embryos.

 

The case in question was performed by a rogue actor, including that he lied about what he was doing. China was opposed.

You don't have an argument against China.

 

It's the same question. There will be issues discovered during IVF and during gestation - in both cases after there is a fertilized embryo. There are also isses discovered before there is a fertilized embryo. For instance, people get tested for Huntingtons and other issues.

As I said, I believe there will be ethical questions that will be difficult to address - especially through government action against women.

 

Sigh...the topic, once again, doesn't have anything to do with abortion. If you have a problem with IVF in general, start your own thread about it.

 

Yes I'm sure it's quite easy for Chinese researchers to go "rogue" in government owned labs and facilities in a communist dictatorship.

 

The topic is about choosing which embryos to abort.

It proposes new criteria, but similar criteria already exist.

 

You have no supporting evidence for a conclusion such as that.

You're suggesting that it is easier to operate against the will of a dictatorship than it is to work against the will of a democracy.

There are problems with that idea.

 

This is going to be very popular in China. China is very very academically competitive.

Students in China have committed suicide because they didn't get the grade they wanted on a big test. Not even for bad grade. We're talking a 92 out of 100.
A few schools have installed netting to prevent any students from hurling themselves off the balcony on final exam day.

 

No actual embryos are "aborted." You do realize this selection happens pre-implantation don't you?

 

I'm suggesting that if China didn't want that work done, it wouldn't be done. Since it was done, I'm guessing there was some tacit government approval to do it.

 

I think it's mostly prevailing values in that society. China may not outright approve, but they do recognize many parents are going to want this.

In China, those at the political top got the highest school grades, got accepted into the best schools based on their test scores.

 

Then what are the prevailing attitudes? This sort of selection seems to be a bit taboo in the West, but I don't think there is any such taboo in the East.

 

We're talking about a society that, only a few decades ago, left unwanted children to die.

Chinese Cultural Studies: A Holocaust of Little Girls

I've talked to regular Chinese people about this. Their attitude is not that the unborn are not people, but rather seems to be that their society is so competitive that it can be difficult to survive, and so making these difficult sacrifices is acceptable. Paradoxically, although Chinese strongly value their own life, human life in general is not seen as very valuable, especially with China having a billion people.​

 

This will place an interesting twist on natural human evolution...

 

IVF aborts (kills, flushes, destroys) far more embryos than are ever implanted.

There isn't any reason to believe that an implanted embryo is more sacred than an embryo that didn't get implanted.

 

You have a weird idea about how law enforcement works.

But, you do have an exciting assumption generator!

 

If you feel that embryos are "sacred", that's outside this discussion. If you have some sort of kooky religious hang ups about IVF, take them to the religion section.