Iran called Trump's bluff

It is time to review where we are.

We all know Iran is a bad actor. Does that give Trump the right to provoke another Middle East war, a war that would be ten times worse than Iraq because of Iran's military capabilities?

The shootdown of the RQ-4 surveillance drone did not happen in a vacuum. Other events preceded this event, including Trump's foolish mistakes and his high risk attempts to provoke Iran.

After foolishly withdrawing from the nuclear deal with Tehran struck by the Obama administration, which permanently barred Iran from making a nuclear weapon, Trump ratcheted up sanctions — including, in April, a move to shut down Iran’s remaining oil exports.

The only peaceful avenue that Trump offered out of this economic vise was the acceptance of a dozen draconian U.S. dictates that would completely reverse its foreign policy, essentially calling for regime change.

On May 5th, Trump ordered a battleship-carrier strike group (CBG), led by the U.S.S. Abraham Lincoln, and a bomber task force, including B-52s, deployed off Iran’s coast.

Five days later, on May 10th, the Pentagon announced a second display of force: the U.S.S. Arlington and a battery of Patriot missile systems would join the Abraham Lincoln. The Arlington carries U.S. Marines and an array of aircraft, landing craft, and weapons systems to support an amphibious assault.

Secretary of State Mike Pompeo and National Security Advisor John Bolton are both war hawks when it comes to Iran, and both have called for regime change. Iran assumes the two are speaking for Trump, despite Trump's statements to the contrary. Trump's penchant for wanting it both ways is well known to the Iranian leadership. Since actions speak louder than words. They take his rhetoric with a grain of salt.

The surveillance capability of the RQ-4 drone include high-resolution radar and long-range sensors with long loiter times over target areas. It can survey as much as 40,000 square miles (100,000 km2) of terrain a day, an area the size of South Korea.

The Pentagon says the Global Hawk was a little more than 20 miles off the coast of Iran. It does not matter if it was 50 miles. The drone's mission was to spy on Iranian military facilities, and that is what it was doing when Iran shot it down. Ordering up that UAV was a clear act of provocation. In other words, it was stupid, and the Commander-in-Chief is fully responsible.

Iran's territorial waters extend out twelve miles from the coast. That is a distance of eight miles between the territorial limit and the point of attack according to the Pentagon. At such a small distance, miscalculations can easily be made.

Iran called Trump's bluff, and Trump went into his Neville Chamberlain mode. His incompetence and stupidity is showing.

 

Why on earth does the DP insist on making itself the Party of War now?
Donald Trump is now obviously all that is preventing our corrupt bipartisan political class and its Deep State from starting another war. Ordinary Americans are very sick of war.
The politicians who are now openly pushing war will pay a heavy price if their efforts succeed.

 

Being president gives every occupant of the Oval Office new insight that they were not expecting

If we stand aside and let russia or china rule the world its guranteed that Americans will not like the result

 

Please link to actual proof from an unbiased source.

 

Of course the drone was a provocation. Kind of like a bully sticking his finger in another's face, daring them to do something about it. It may be that Trump, despite all his tough talk, has no stomach for war.

 

Here is the encyclopedia version:
https://www.britannica.com/event/Iran-Contra-Affair

An in depth scholarly look:
https://www.brown.edu/Research/Understanding_the_Iran_Contra_Affair/

And a couple of history sites:
https://www.u-s-history.com/pages/h1889.html
https://www.history.com/topics/1980s/iran-contra-affair

 

I don't think that any rational individual considers the take over of the US embassy in Iran to be the same thing as a government organized & condoned invasion of another country such as Israel's ill fated invasion of Lebanon in 2006 and recent series of air strikes against Syria.

Re:

In addition to studying Mid East history & closely following its events since Israel's deliberate attack on our USS Liberty, I've been to Iran & enjoyed the hospitality(1) of its generous people you want so badly to kill.

It's obvious that your own limited source of information is only pro Israel MSM(2) but have you ever been to Iran?



(1) "Ten Reasons Why Iranians are the Kindest People in the World (to Foreign Tourists)"
http://en.rocketnews24.com/2012/09/...dest-people-in-the-world-to-foreign-tourists/

EXCERPT "During my stay in the country,[IRAN] I soon came to realize what everyone was talking about. Below is a list of ten things I encountered that I believe attest to the kindness of Iranians."CONTINUED


(2) “U.S. media coverage reveals a pro-Israel bias”
http://www.japantimes.co.jp/opinion/2014/09/01/commentary/world-commentary/u-s-media-coverage-reveals-a-pro-israel-bias/#.WMLm5mafK_U

EXCERPT “Why does TV news look like a Netanyahu ad?” asked Chris McGreal of The Guardian on July 31, in his article on the “notoriously pro-Israel mainstream media in the U.S.”CONTINUED

 

I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about I thought you implied that Ronald Reagan's campaign made a secret agreement with the Iranians prior to the 1980 election to keep the American hostages from being released just prior to the election to help Carter win reelection.

 

I asked you about WHO was actually CHARGED with anything... and WHO was actually found to have DONE anything -- not who was 'pardoned' after this whole overblown, marble-caked 'scandal' had failed (FAILED) to prove that Ronald Reagan had done anything wrong! Nevertheless, even he didn't do ANYTHING wrong, Reagan stepped up and took responsibility: From you Politico link:

"On March 4, 1987, in a televised address from the Oval Office, Reagan said: “I take full responsibility for my own actions and for those of my administration. As angry as I may be about activities undertaken without my knowledge, I am still accountable for those activities. As disappointed as I may be in some who served me, I'm still the one who must answer to the American people for this behavior.”

Congress, which was in Democratic hands, issued a report on Nov. 18, 1987, stating that “If the president did not know what his national security advisers were doing, he should have.”

That was as close as the Democrats got to being able so smear sh!t on Reagan... a classic case of political "epic-fail"....

Now, back to the issue of Iran invading the American Embassy (by every internationally-accepted standard -- SOVEREIGN SOIL) and deliberately held American citizens as prisons for over a year?! And this wasn't some gaggle of 'religious' Islamo-crazies that did this -- no -- it was a militia that acted under the guidance and supervision of the Islamic Republic of Iran, which had become the Iranian government six months before this attack and occupation occurred.... Got anything to say about that?!

 

So this is all you've got to defend the insane religious band of Islamo-priests who rule Iran? In your mind, everything that is wrong with Iran's conduct is because Israel is an ally of the United States? And, in the same post, you want to completely DENY that an invasion (INVASION) of any country's embassy is considered throughout the world to be the SAME thing as an attack on the sovereign soil of that nation? What nonsense! I've read a lot of your posts on other topics, and you usually make a lot more sense than this!

As far as me hating Iranians is concerned, one of my most enjoyable working friendships when I was at the Univ. of Texas long ago was with a co-worker who was Iranian. Much more recently, I had an Iranian dentist -- in several ways, the best I ever had, and that relationship ended only when this dentist relocated to another part of the United States.

And I have the utmost respect and admiration for Iranians like this remarkable young Iranian woman, a chess Grand Champion, who is being forced by the insane Iranian theocracy to put a bag over her head or she cannot compete internationally for Iran!

Link: https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/770402/iran-ban-chess-champion-hijab

. Is this Israel's fault, too...?

 

The Iranian people could be the most wonderful people on the planet, except they're ruled by completely INSANE individuals. And lets not forget they don't take so kindly to homosexuality and women's rights, which puts them at odds with the rest of the 1st world. They've got a loooooooooong way to go and it has nothing to do with us or da joos. They follow a religion that's still stuck in the dark ages.

 

Barring Iran from enriching Uranium to the point of it being bomb material for 10 years is a whole lot better than having Iran do this now. There is also the potential for this to be extended further.

What the Trump Admin is doing serves only to 1) make it more likely that Iran will enrich prior to 10 years 2) given them every reason not to extend time period into the future.

 

What all of you are forgetting (or deliberatly IGNORING) is that Iran has flatly FORBIDDEN any inspections of anything at any place that Iran unilaterally declares to be a "military site". I already posted the truth of this fact in this thread. What can be so damned hard for anyone to understand about this now?!

"Americans will not be allowed to inspect the military bases," said Mohammad Bagher Nobakht, a member of Iran's nuclear implementation committee, according to state television." Link: https://www.latimes.com/world/asia/la-fg-iran-nuclear-20170830-story.html

"Iranian government spokesman Mohammad Baqer Nobakht responded at a weekly news conference broadcast on state television on Tuesday. Iran’s military sites are off limits,” he said. “All information about these sites are classified. Iran will never allow such visits. Don’t pay attention to such remarks that are only a dream.” Link: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...for-u-n-visit-to-military-sites-idUSKCN1B918E

Where on earth does anyone with a brain think that the Iranians would continue to their pursuit of thermonuclear hydrogen bombs?!

 

One thing that we do know is that the drone was not looking at fish for national geographic.

 

Oh, now you're claiming to be all "factual"...?! How about confronting the FACTS about Iran forbidding inspections at any site that it declares, UNILATERALLY, to be 'military'.... Did you absorb nothing that was previously posted about the pronouncements of high-ranking Iranian government official, Mohammad Nobakht...?! If that isn't "siding with Iran", what in the world could be?!

 

I have absolutely no fondness for the strict, theocratic element in Iran's government but feel that any durable change in Iran has to come from within Iran by establishing a realistic, equitable & just dialogue with Iran's secular leadership under President Rouhani.

It should be noted that Rouhani has repeatedly reached out to the US (1) but the Israeli lobbies who strongly influence US policy making prohibit a constructive & realistic dialogue between the US & Iran and are doing everything in their considerable power to instigate a disastrous war between the US & Iran:

"Israel is pushing the US into war against Iran"
http://between-the-lines-ludwig-wat...03/israel-is-pushing-us-into-war-against.html

"Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu Leads US President Trump to War with Iran"
https://www.unz.com/jpetras/israeli...hu-leads-us-president-trump-to-war-with-iran/

"America Cannot Go to War for Israel"
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ahmed-moor/america-cannot-go-to-war-_b_682467.html

"Lobbyist Says Israel Should Create A 'False Flag' To Start A War With Iran"
https://www.businessinsider.com/top...-with-iran-sink-sub-illicit-false-flag-2012-9

"Netanyahu Is Meeting Trump To Push For War With Iran"
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/netanyahu-trump-war-with-iran_us_59bfc6e6e4b086432b089840

"Neocon Pundit: The Israel Lobby Wants War With Iran"
http://www.thedailybeast.com/neocon-pundit-the-israel-lobby-wants-war-with-iran

"Netanyahu & the Lobby Cowboy Up For War With Iran"
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mj-rosenberg/netanyahu-the-lobby-cowbo_b_3611038.html

_ _ _ _ _ _

It is especially important to note that unlike the earlier, ill fated US war with Iraq that was also a product of AIPAC's machinations(2), the US does not have the support of our allies in its transparent & hypocritical bullying of Iran.

Without the support of our traditional allies, Trump's bullying of Iran into a war will be seen exactly for what it is:
.... another illegitimate sacrifice of US blood & resources to further the regional ambitions of nuclear armed Israel.




(1) "Iran's President Rouhani Won't Stop Reaching Out to the American People"
https://www.theatlantic.com/interna...ont-stop-reaching-out-american-people/310856/


(2) “QUIETLY LOBBYING CONGRESS TO APPROVE THE USE OF FORCE IN IRAQ WAS ONE OF AIPAC’S SUCCESSES OVER THE PAST YEAR.”

AIPAC Executive Director Howard Kohr; N.Y. Sun, Jan. 2003

 

It is absurd to expect that Americans would be allowed to inspect military bases. Are we going to allow Iran to inspect US bases for banned weapons ?

What about inspections by non "American" actors ?

Regardless of what you, I, or the US thinks - the fact of the matter is that all the permanent members of the security council and Germany agreed to this deal. It is not in the interest of any of these other nations for Iran to obtain nuclear weapons. It is not like these nations do not have the same concerns that you have expressed. The fact of the matter is that the US negotiators at the table have the same concerns that you have addressed - and they agreed to the deal.

This was not "Obama's deal" - this was a deal made by the nations in charge of the world - of which the US is only one. This is not just a US issue or an Israeli issue - this is a global issue.

What Trump administration has done has severe repercussions. He has gone against the world and defacto stated that "My opinion matters and yours doesn't" and nor does the opinion of the US. Further he has shown that agreements made by the US with the world are worthless and that he has no respect for any world governing body - except when that body agrees with him.

The problem- well one among many- with this position is that Iran can not be prevented from getting nuclear weapons without the rest of the world joining in. What brought Iran to the table was sanctions and sanctions are not worth much without the rest of the world joining in.

If China or Russia were not concerned about Iran having nuclear weapons - they could just give Iran nuclear weapons. Simple - done deal. We can not prevent Iran from getting nuclear weaons on our own.

The historical fact of the matter is that the US and France have a horrible track record with respect to nuclear proliferation. Israel was allowed to get nukes .. so was South Africa. China and Russia did not do this .. the US was responsible - and others.

It was France that allowed some Pakistani nuclear physicist access to the nuclear secrets and it was this fellow that then helped Pakistan build the bomb. In addition - he sold those secrets to North Korea, Iran and Iraq.

Can you imagine being a fly on the wall in the negotiating room. Do you think that this did not come up ? China and Russia stating "it was you guys who were responsible for the colossal fk-ups that led to nuclear proliferation - It is because of the actions of your nations that we are in the position we are in today" - time to let the adults in the room handle this ! - we have far more influence with Iran than you do in any case.

How are we to respond ? Ummmm duuuhhhh .. ugggggg .. yeah well... uummmmm duuuuh uggg. Colossal fk up. Pakistan - as a nation - is far more extremist than Iran - truth be told. Fortunately they are not in the middle east but - the hatred of the Islamist's in Pakistan for Israel is just as real .. but I digress.

Can you imagine a side bar between a Chinese and Russian delegate -- "yeah .. like we allowed some Pakistani National access to the nuclear secrets - what a bunch of idiots" - and they would be 100% correct.

Regardless of what my or your opinion of the effectiveness of the deal was .. it was a whole lot better than the situation we are now in. What's worse is that we have soiled our reputation and credibility big time - and stuff like this matters.

Our closest allies have spoken out against sanctions in the strongest possible terms - phrases like "you are messing with our sovereignty" and in fact we are doing just that. Trump is going around using a club to try and beat the rest of the world into submission - again with complete lack of respect for rest of the world .. as if he is king of the world - and this is doing drastic harm to our long term economic security.

 

So, do you have a stomach for war?

 

That is false. Now you believe an Iranian instead of American sources and America's allies who say the JCPOA was doing exactly as intended, prevent Iran from making a nuke, permanently.

Nobakht's comments were meant for home consumption. You won't hear that from the IAEA or any of current members of that agreement, three of which are America's allies, Britain, France, and Germany. Here is the truth.

This was written days before Trump withdrew the U.S. from the JCPOA.

The Joint Comprehensive Plan of Action was adopted in October 2015 and formally implemented on Jan. 16, 2016, by the five permanent members of the United Nations Security Council — China, France, Russia, Britain and the United States — and Germany and Iran.

Iran agreed to constraints meant to ensure that its nuclear program will be used only for peaceful purposes, such as energy production. In exchange, the United States, the European Union and the United Nations agreed to lift a broad range of sanctions on Iran. U.S. allies say the Iran deal has helped maintain stability. Critics of the deal say that the broad lifting of sanctions has enabled Iran to increase its influence in a volatile region and that the accord does not restrict Iran from developing ballistic missiles. [But they don't question the permanent nuclear ban]

"Nevertheless, President Trump's statement indicates either abject confusion over the parameters of the JCPOA or a willful misinterpretation of that deal," said Alexandra Bell, senior policy director at the Center for Arms Control and Non-Proliferation. "Either way, it is dangerous, as Iran will never be 'free to go ahead and create nuclear weapons.' "

As a signatory to the Non-Proliferation Treaty, Iran has pledged not to develop nuclear weapons — ever. In agreeing to the JCPOA, Iran recommitted itself to the Non-Proliferation Treaty, Bell said. "The NPT is of indefinite duration and serves as the underpinning for the entire global nonproliferation regime," she said.

https://www.chicagotribune.com/nation-world/ct-fact-check-trump-iran-deal-20180508-story.html

Countless sources say the same thing. Too many people believed Trump's lies. The world may pay a price for that.

 

Recently, the Iranians shot down a very expensive piece of American military equipment, causing a very serious military crisis that could lead to a disastrous war with Iran and her proxies throughout the Middle East. However, Trump backed down and used economic sanctions in retaliation. Trump wants to talk to the Iranians, but the Iranians do not want to talk to him.

Iran has threatened to shoot down any American surveillance aircraft spying on their military installations, and so the crisis continues.

Throughout all of this, we now have a new acting defense secretary. He is former army secretary, Mark Esper, and his first day was yesterday!

Prior to that we had another acting defense secretary, Patrick Shanahan. He quit Friday because it was revealed he and his son beat up Shanahan's estranged wife, the son beating up the woman with a baseball bat.

We have not had a qualified defense secretary for six months. Shanahan was a former accountant executive for Boeing, a bean counter. However, he was one of Trump's reliable sycophants.

The last qualified defense secretary was Marine General James Mattis. He quit six months ago when Trump ordered American troops out of Syria, thereby turning the region over to the murderous dictator, Bashar Al-Assad, and the Russian government. The Russians have a naval base at Tartus.

Considering this a uniquely stupid and self-destructive idea, Mattis quit. In six months he has not been replaced.

Fortunately, cooler heads prevailed, and Trump was forced to rescind the order.

That seems to happen a lot with Trump.

 

If need be. But then I would not threaten to hit someone who I did not intend to hit.

 

I want to believe, that even though Trump is a bit off, that somehow our country is still in the hands of sensible people. More and more though, it is as if no one is at home, metaphorically speaking. There are all manner of unfilled posts. It makes you wonder what Trump is in charge of.

 

Trump, obviously, by himself, blocked our corrupt Deep State warmongers from going to war - again.
Why are you supporting the war hawks?

 

In the wake of Sarah Sanders and Patrick Shanahan quitting in the past two weeks, now Acting Customs and Border Protection Commissioner John Sanders (no relation) is quitting. He will be replaced by Mark Morgan, the acting director of U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement, as his new border chief, replacing the current acting commissioner of U.S. Customs and Border Protection. Matt Albence, the deputy director of ICE who led the agency before Morgan’s arrival, will resume once more as ICE acting director.

Did everyone follow all that. Isn't this fun?

Occasionally, some of Trump's fans claim I hate Trump. It is their pathetic excuse for being unable to defend their hero in the face of all of his boneheaded mistakes. Nothing could be farther from the truth.

The Trump administration is great entertainment.

 

“North Korea best not make any more threats to the United States,” Trump said in August 2017. “They will be met with fire and fury like the world has never seen.” He added, “He has been very threatening beyond a normal state, and as I said, they will be met with fire and fury, and frankly power the likes of which this world has never seen before.”

We didn't believe Trump tehn, and we don't believe Trump now.

Trump tweeted on June 25, 2019 that an Iranian attack on "anything American will be met with great and overwhelming force. In some areas, overwhelming will mean obliteration. No more John Kerry & Obama!".

How about Neville Chamberlain?

To Trump, the answer for everything is tough rhetoric. He doesn't have the balls to attack Iran.