How are we better off post Iran deal?

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by robini123, Jun 21, 2019.

  1. Pro_Line_FL

    Pro_Line_FL Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    No one asked Trump to police the shipping lanes. He is doing that out of his own free will, and considering the recent attacks, it is not working too well.

    He sent the aircraft carrier there last month, and now he is wondering why he did it. This kind of confusion is so typical in the Trump admin.
     
  2. FAW

    FAW Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    -Iran cannot be allowed to possess nuclear weapons, and Israel most certainly is not going to allow that to happen. What that means is that you have a large war looming at some point in the near future, UNLESS non-warring means such as sanctions can deter them off their current course. To answer your question, yes, the President of the United States ABSOLUTELY has the right, neigh the moral imperative, to do everything in their power in order to avoid a larger conflict. You may not like this, but displaying a willingness to use one's overwhelming power, is by far the best way to avoid a larger conflict. The absolute WORST thing that any President could do in such circumstances is to project weakness. Projecting weakness increases the likelihood of a larger conflict occurring.

    -As far as your claim that a war with Iran "would be ten times worse", on what basis are you making that claim? We heard similar claims prior to our first war with Saddam, and we all know how that turned out. Iran and Iraq fought a years-long war that was essentially a draw, with that being the case, how are you claiming them to be so far superior to Iraq militarily?
     
  3. ronv

    ronv Well-Known Member

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    We have these thing called spy satellites. They work really good for things like this.
    Then of course there are good old spies and of course weapons inspectors.
    Are you Israeli?
     
  4. FAW

    FAW Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    -You do know that spy satellites cannot see inside buildings or underground do you not?

    -You do know that Iran is a closed nation much like North Korea and that it is nearly impossible to have useful assets implanted do you not?

    -No, I am not Israeli, but they do have my full support.
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2019
  5. flyboy56

    flyboy56 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I already posted the link to the UN resolution.
     
  6. flyboy56

    flyboy56 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I guess the US hasn't had a good negotiator in decades because that is how long the US has been protecting the Strait of Hormuz.
     
  7. Sandy Shanks

    Sandy Shanks Banned

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    Recently, the Iranians shot down a very expensive piece of American military equipment, causing a very serious military crisis that could lead to a disastrous war with Iran and her proxies throughout the Middle East. However, Trump backed down and used economic sanctions in retaliation. Trump wants to talk to the Iranians, but the Iranians do not want to talk to him.

    Iran has threatened to shoot down any American surveillance aircraft spying on their military installations, and so the crisis continues.

    Throughout all of this, we now have a new acting defense secretary. He is former army secretary, Mark Esper, and his first day was yesterday!

    Prior to that we had another acting defense secretary, Patrick Shanahan. He quit Friday because it was revealed he and his son beat up Shanahan's estranged wife, the son beating up the woman with a baseball bat.

    We have not had a qualified defense secretary for six months. Shanahan was a former accountant executive for Boeing, a bean counter. However, he was one of Trump's reliable sycophants.

    The last qualified defense secretary was Marine General James Mattis. He quit six months ago when Trump ordered American troops out of Syria, thereby turning the region over to the murderous dictator, Bashar Al-Assad, and the Russian government. The Russians have a naval base at Tartus.

    Considering this a uniquely stupid and self-destructive idea, Mattis quit. In six months he has not been replaced.

    Fortunately, cooler heads prevailed, and Trump was forced to rescind the order.

    That seems to happen a lot with Trump.
     
  8. garyd

    garyd Well-Known Member

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    They also had himint in the area which we did not as late as the early 2000.
     
  9. ronv

    ronv Well-Known Member

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    You mean this one?
    On March 29, 2016, the United States, the UK, France, and Germany wrote a joint letter to Secretary-General of the United Nations Ban Ki-moon accusing Iran of "defying" Security Council Resolution 2231 through missile tests conducted since the deal. The letter said the missiles were "inherently capable of delivering nuclear weapons". However, it stopped short of saying the tests were illegal. Resolution 2231 calls for Iran to refrain from activity related to nuclear-capable missiles ("Iran is called upon not to undertake any activity related to ballistic missiles designed to be capable of delivering nuclear weapons, including launches using such ballistic missile technology"[3]), but according to diplomats the language is not legally binding and cannot be enforced with punitive measures.[4]
     
  10. ronv

    ronv Well-Known Member

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    It's not like you build these things in some strip mall. The facilities are Yuge.
    How do you think we know where N. Korea's facilities are? Did they give Trump a map?
     
  11. Sandy Shanks

    Sandy Shanks Banned

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    Trump began the provocation toward war with Iran a year ago when the removed the U.S. from the JCPOA and hit Iran hard with economic sanctions.

    Now it seems the lunatics are running the asylum.

    Secretary of State Mike Pompeo has said that the United States is "considering a full range of options" regarding rising tensions with Iran, including military options, but emphasized that Trump has said that he does not want to go to war.

    Pompeo hasn't learned yet? Americans do not trust anything Trump says. He has lied to us too many times. After all, he was the one who said, “No, it’s not what I meant. It’s what I said."

    Pompeo offered a set of actions that could restore deterrence.

    Now we are getting to what Trump really wants. "Restore deterrence" is code for trying to force Iran to do what Trump wants them to do. And, if they don't do what Trump wants them to do? Trump is "considering a full range of options, including military options" and regime change.

    Here is the lunacy. “We’re not going to have Iran have a nuclear weapon,” Trump told reporters.

    We already had an agreement with Iran that permanently barred Iran from making a nuke. Trump trashed it!!!

    Is Trump bipolar? Did he forget that he removed the U.S. from the agreement? Does he think Americans forgot that part? Is he nuts?

    Iranian President Hassan Rouhani says the White House is "suffering from mental disability" and behaving as "no sane person," in the wake of new sanctions imposed by Trump earlier this week which an Iranian spokesman said have closed the "channel of diplomacy forever."

    Hmmm, interesting.
     
  12. FAW

    FAW Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    What are you talking about?....a nuclear reactor? Of course that is large and viewable by space and of course we know where a reactor is. For that matter we know those reactors are running as part of the agreement. There is a lot more to a nuclear bomb than the reactor. The reactor merely produces the fissionable material. Our concern is far more focused upon the delivery system and the actual bomb components themself, both of which are likely to be located on a military base. In all likelihood, those are located far underground in order to thwart future attempts to bomb those facilities.

    You can either inspect anywhere at any time..... or inspecting is effectively meaningless and an exercise in needless futility. The inability to search military bases is a vital part of verifying compliance. It is so obvious that it is shocking that it even has to be said. OBVIOUSLY military bases are vital.
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2019
  13. ronv

    ronv Well-Known Member

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    I don't know why you are hung up on military bases when it is so easy to inspect the path of the key ingredients.
    We have zero arms treaties that allow military inspection.
     
  14. FAW

    FAW Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Why am I hung up on military locations when the subject is nuclear weapons?.....hmmmmmm......gee whiz...I WONDER WHY? Where do you suppose that we keep our nuclear weapons and missile delivery systems?
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2019
  15. ronv

    ronv Well-Known Member

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    We scatter them all over the country. Mostly in low population areas. Then there are the ones on boats, planes and trains.
    Why on earth would you put them on a military base and make them a natural target.
    But they don't have any yet so we can look at the development sites.
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2019
  16. FAW

    FAW Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    PSSSSST.....A missile silo IS A MILITARY LOCATION

    Let's start wrapping this up.....this is a colossal bore.
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2019
  17. ronv

    ronv Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, I'm out of straws. You have grasp them all.
    [​IMG]
     
  18. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    What does the Paris accord have to do with anything and you did not answer the question - "How are we better off" ?
     
  19. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Iran is not the largest state supporter of terrorism. You are ingesting too much MSM propaganda and not validating the stuff that you claim.

    Saudi Arabia is a way bigger state sponsor of terrorist groups.. and if we are counting - the US is a bigger supporter of terrorism than Iran.
     
  20. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Better economy, historic low unemployment in all demographics, more money in my pocket due to tax cuts, firmer stance on countries taking advantage of America.
     
    BuckyBadger likes this.
  21. Dayton3

    Dayton3 Well-Known Member

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    False assumption right there.
     
  22. FAW

    FAW Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Are you trying to insinuate that we should allow Iran to have nuclear weapons, or are you simply interested in bogging down this conversation with a meaningless debate about what constitutes state sponsorship of terrorism? If it is the former, let's have that conversation because it is relevant to the meat of what was being discussed. If it is the latter, please move on because I have no interest in bickering about an irrelevant tangent where you quote sources that contort the definition of terrorism so that it can be used to further the radical lefts America hating and claim that WE are the REAL terrorists....zzzzz.
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2019
  23. FAW

    FAW Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Those are strawmen. You have put up so many strawmen in this discussion that you have now run out. It was bound to happen at some point.
     
  24. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The question was now "how are we better off due to Trumps trade wars" The question was how are we better off with respect to the nuclear issue - how are we more safe from nuclear weapons ?

    I agree that the sanctions and some trade issues resulted from backing out of the deal - but that is a different issue (none of which has anything to do with tax cuts and the sanctions are hurting us).
     
  25. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I have never insinuated that Iran should be allowed to have nukes - and I was not the one that brought up the "State sponsor" issue. It was another poster that was bringing up this issue with respect to "the deal" - an issue that is relevant because this is part of Trumps justification for backing out of the deal.

    Then - after claiming you did not want to go down the "terrorism" rabbit hole - you then go straight down the rabbit hole you claimed to want to avoid making a bunch of nonsense claims with respect to the radical left hating America and contorting the definition of terrorism - inferring that I have done such a thing which is a falsehood.

    It is not some secret that we armed Islamist extremists (including the 911 terrorist group Al Qaeda) - with tens of thousands of tons of sophisticated military technology. If what Al Qaeda does not fit the definition of "Terrorism" than what does ?

    How is arming and supporting Al Qaeda - not being a state sponsor of terrorism ?
     

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