First we discuss the scope of the issue. Involuntary Celibacy is a relatively common phenomenon in Modern USA. About 28% of men aged 20-30 are involuntary celibate. Most men who have been married for over 10 years are also involuntary celibate or MarriedCel. Overall, about 40% of men in USA are involuntary celibate. It is more common among married rather then single men. Involuntary Celibacy is not an issue for women, but many women are Involuntary Single -- they can not find any men to commit to them. According to "Women Can't Hear What Men do not Say" by Dr. Warren Farrell, many women who dislike men are Involuntary Single. Finding a partner is not a right, but it is an interest for most people. Second, we discuss some problems with those who identify as InCels. Many InCels claim that women owe them sex, which is absolutely wrong by any standard. Some InCels believe that sex is a civil right, which is absolute nonsense. Likewise, some women who are Involuntary Single accuse men of being commitment-phobic. The 2005 book "Are Men Necessary?: When Sexes Collide" by Maureen Dowd which celebrates the predicted extinction of males lists men's commitment-phobia as one of our main faults. Most of those who study InCels blame their ideology on patriarchal thinking. In reality, InCel ideology is an outgrowth of several concepts popular in Social Justice Community. I will expand this point later. Fortunately, only a tiny minority of men identify as InCel. A tiny minority of those who are involuntary celibate are InCel. Several InCels have committed heinous crimes, but there is no data whether the 40% of men who are involuntary celibate are more or less likely to commit crimes. The word InCel is being used as an insult in many arguments which have nothing to do with involuntary celibacy. Quite frequently this insult is used by Leftist men who are MarriedCel against men who are non-celibate. Third, we discuss the impact of sex work on the issue of involuntary celibacy. In most of the World, prostitution is accepted and involuntary celibacy does not exist. I have followed the trends of criminalization and decriminalization of sex work around the World. In all US states except Nevada, both buying and selling of sex is a crime since early 20th century. According to Uniform Crime Reports, p.204, 6,500 sex workers and 2,500 sex worker customers were arrested in 1940. According to "Arrest in the United States, 1990-2010" , p.2, 43,200 sex workers and 19,500 sex worker customers were arrested in 2010. Due to the pressure from pro-criminalization groups, purchasing sex has been criminalized in Sweden 1999, South Korea 2004, Norway 2009, Iceland 2009, North Ireland and Canada 2014, France 2016, Ireland 2017, Israel 2019, and Spain sometime soon. In all formerly Socialist countries both selling and buying sex was illegal during most of Communist reign. In Russia, it was outlawed in 1918 and the law was "forgotten" in 1980s. In China it was outlawed in 1949, and the law was "forgotten" in 2000s. In 2019, there is a proposition to decriminalize both sex workers and their customers in New York State. Forth, I would like to discuss the most rational course of action to be taken by men. We should understand that sex work is beneficial for Society in general and most men in particular. The vast majority of sex workers are on their free will. In UK, where sex work is legal both for the sex workers and customers, obtaining services from a trafficking victim is a strict liability offense (Section s.53A added to Sex Crimes Act in 2010). According to "Violence against Women and Girls Crime report" for 2015-'16 by UK Crown Prosecution Service, during 2010-'11 fiscal year, 40 men were prosecuted on the basis of s.53A. During later years, the numbers fell to less then 10 per year. According to Table 10, p. 80, there have been up to 142 cases of human trafficking in UK. The total number of sex workers in UK is about 80,000. In USA, selling or purchasing sexual services is a misdemeanor. On one hand, I would never advice anyone to break the Law. The Law is the Law. Even though very few InCels commit actual violence, many involuntary celibate people in USA commit this misdemeanor. According to YouGov Survey of March 5 - 7, 2016, about 12% of all American men including 20% of American men aged 30-44 are guilty. Overall, this misdemeanor is committed about 15 million times per year in USA. Many repeat offenders can no longer be classified as celibate, but they risk arrest and blacklisting. On the other hand, men must base their votes on their self interest rather then on unearned guilt. Even though an ability to find a partner is not a right, it is an interest for most men. If most men were sane enough to base their votes on self interest, any politician who supports legalization of sex work would have gotten an overwhelming majority of men's votes against an opponent who opposes legalization. Kamala Harris would have been Democratic front-runner. In Spain, Vox Party would have gotten 40% rather then 10% of popular vote. Of course many women oppose legalization, which is their right. We are grateful to everyone who supports Legalization, but we would never coerce anyone to follow our views. We are grateful to women who stand up for men, yet we never demand support from anyone. Unfortunately, in modern USA, sane men are in the minority, while most men suffer Male Guilt Syndrome. MGS is a psychosis caused by excessive exposure to toxic Media which presents men as Privileged Oppressors and women as their victims. MGS can be cured by a moderate doze of healthy Alternative Media which deals with ways in which men are disadvantaged by Modern Western Society. I would like to reiterate an important distinction. Prohibition of sex work is not a violation of men's civil rights, but voting for men's best interests is the rational choice any sane man would take. Even though awareness of other areas, where men's civil rights are in fact violated has nothing to do with the issue at hand, such awareness would cure most men of Male Guilt Syndrome and help them make right decision on every issue.
Can't states allow sex work? There is no federal law against it so I assume it could be handled on a state by state basis.
How much of this has to do with the state of the economy? Homeless Millennials Here's one reason white women are not having kids We've also seen this phenomena unfold in Japan, only big time: Japan: young not getting married, not in relationship, not having sex
I think the main problem is prohibition of sex work. It is definitely not a right, but that is an interest which every sane man should support with his vote.
I think more young women are being pushed into part-time sex work on the side, because they're struggling to pay the rent in high-priced cities. The people paying for these girls are mostly middle-aged men in established good-paying careers. We've even seen the rise of "rent girls", where some young women in New York City will be part-time girlfriends with an older man and give him some occasional sex just to share his flat.
Yet the number of arrests of both men and women for prostitution is about twice lower then in 1999. My point is that men must vote based on their best interests rather then unearned guilt. Every sane man should vote for candidates which support decriminalizing both providers and customers.
The argument against prostitution stems from two reasons: disease, and pregnancy. Obviously that can happen without prostitution, but making sex into a business generally encourages much more of it. In certain controlled situations, I could see legal justification for permitting it, if the women are sterilized and the women and clients are screened for disease.
Thant is absolute noncence. All adults should be free to take these risks. No one should be penalized in any way.
Conception and abortion could involve someone else who's not a consenting adult. A woman who is married to a man is not consenting to disease if that husband slept with a hooker and brought back a disease to her. That's why the issue of consent is so muddled in this situation.
'involuntary' celibacy is a natural state in all mammals, including humans. it's STILL the norm for almost all human cultures to spend significant spans of adult life without any sex at all. and in many cultures it's the norm to have only occasional sex within marriage, and none at all after a certain age. we (westerners) only think of it as problematic because we spent a few decades pretending we could have it all at no cost.
men inevitably have a nifty solution to 'involuntary celibacy'. Most of them learn it by the age of 13 and they never have to save up a dime of allowance.
Definitely having a partner is not a right. But it is an interest, which greatly improves quality of life. I pointed out that any sane man would vote for a candidate who supports legalization against a candidate who supports criminalization. I am not trying to impose my view on anyone -- I am just pointing out that sane people unburdened by unearned guilt vote in their best interests. Strangely, my views on the subject are still controversial.
Which would not prevent any of them from voting for candidates who would pass laws in their interests.
You know I have never seen much evidence for the proposition that men have been historically shy about voting for their collective interests. They were doing all of the voting when these anti-prostitution laws were put in place. I just don't think you have proven that case here. They see their self interest in broader terms than perhaps you would like them to. They worried about how prostitution impacted their families, their communities. They may be wrong but they see the physical and social health of the town, as reflecting male self interest at least as much as sexual liberty may.
Is there any evidence that legalising prostitution leads to an increase in disease? Prostitution has been legal in most parts of Australia for decades & I am unaware of any great leap in STDs. In fact, when I have heard the issue discussed sex workers claim that legalisation makes it easier for them to compel clients to wear condoms.
Agree. The OP seems to discount that at various points of our lives, all men are incels. It's not a separate class of men with separate interests. Anytime a guy isn't in a relationship and strikes out at the club (or wherever) they are incels. In fact probably for most men, the period of time before marriage and not in a relationship is in an involuntary celibate state. It seems more normal than not. No reason to form a voting bloc.
No. I said that sex work is one of interests of all men as a class. There are other interests specific to men -- help for male DV victims, Presumption of Innocence, Equality in divorce, etc.
Mama said stop stayin' out in the night, straighten up and fly-eye-eye right -- because somebody out there may take you prisoner, torture you, kill you, and burn your body in their back yard.
Very few modern men base their vote on any interest of men as a class -- Presumption of Innocence, help for male DV victims, Equality in Divorce, etc.
Whether married or single, it's the normal state for 99% of male mammals, 99% of the time. Most male social mammals die as virgins, in fact. The heirarchy of the pack ensures it. When you live or travel amongst non-western cultures, you learn that this reality is better understood and accepted than it is in the West.
As I said, finding a partner is not a right but an interest. Men should vote for candidates who represent their interests. I most of the World, sex work is legal or tolerated.
