It's baaaaaaaack : the Debt Ceiling

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by fullmetaljack, Jul 9, 2019.

  1. fullmetaljack

    fullmetaljack Well-Known Member

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    7/8/2019
    "The U.S. government could run out of money to pay all of its bills by early September if Congress doesn’t rush to raise the debt ceiling, a think tank said Monday, a time frame that could force lawmakers to act much sooner than planned.

    The Bipartisan Policy Center said that the Treasury Department could breach the borrowing limit in two months because the government has brought in far less tax revenue this year than was projected. The BPC uses economic models to forecast the government’s ability to pay its bills, and its estimates are often studied by the White House and congressional leaders."

    Less tax revenue ? Shocking !

    Congress is out for the summer, so if this accelerates, they might be out of session when it hits the fan.

    LMAO
     
  2. squidward

    squidward Well-Known Member

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    More spending ? Shocking !
     
  3. smallblue

    smallblue Well-Known Member

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    As the late, great Lionel Richie once said, "Oh, what a feeling, I am dancing on the debt ceiling."
     
  4. squidward

    squidward Well-Known Member

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    Late?
     
  5. perotista

    perotista Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The debt ceiling has always been a political football, at least since Reagan and actually before him. Eisenhower tried like all get out to balance the budget and succeeded twice. But who votes for raising the debt ceiling and who votes against, recently has been decided by who holds the presidency. Which party the president belongs to, if the president is of your party, you are all for raising it, if the president is of the opposite party, you are against it. Below shows you how the senate voted on the debt ceiling, during Bush the 2nd tenure, Democrats on the whole were adamantly against raising it, Republicans for raising the debt ceiling. Now exit Bush the 2nd and enter Obama, each party has done a 180, all of a sudden, the Democrats are all for it, the Republicans against it. See below

    BUSH THE 2ND TENURE

    Year Democrats for Democrats against Republicans for Republicans against

    2003 3 45 50 1

    2004 2 46 50 1

    2006 0 44 52 3 *


    *It is interest to note in 2006 President Obama voted against raising the debt ceiling and made a speech stating it was unpatriotic to do so.

    OBAMA PRESIDENCY

    2009 59 0 1 40

    2010 60 0 0 40

    2012 52 3 1 45

    2013 54 0 18 27


    So one can see that neither party has any core beliefs when it comes to raising the debt ceiling. It all depends on whom or from which party the president is from.
     
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  6. stratego

    stratego Well-Known Member

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    Less taxes is a good thing
     
  7. fullmetaljack

    fullmetaljack Well-Known Member

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    You got it, more spending on bombs and lower taxes on the wealthy.
    A deadly combination.
     
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  8. squidward

    squidward Well-Known Member

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    Lower taxes good.
    Spending on bombs bad, along with most of the other spending the Gov has no business doing.
     
  9. wgabrie

    wgabrie Well-Known Member Donor

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    Politicians are far too careless with the debt ceiling. Often letting emergency measures go into effect before doing anything to help.
     
  10. smallblue

    smallblue Well-Known Member

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  11. nopartisanbull

    nopartisanbull Well-Known Member

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    Quote: ".....because the government has brought in far less tax revenue this year than was projected"

    Let's take a look;

    A BUDGET FOR A BETTER AMERICA

    Table S-1, Budget totals, FY2019

    1. Projected outlays; $4,536 trillion
    2. Projected receipts; $3,438 trillion
    3. Projected deficit; $1,098 trillion

    Table S-1, Budget totals, FY2018

    1. Actual outlays; $4.109 trillion
    2. Actual receipts; $3.330 trillion
    3. Actual deficit; $779 billion

    https://www.whitehouse.gov/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/budget-fy2020.pdf

    -----------------------

    Question; Is it true that the government has brought in far less tax revenue this year than was projected?

    Let's find out;

    1. Calculate projected percentage of increase;

    Outlays; 4.109 + 10.4% = 4.536 projected
    Receipts; 3.330 + 3.25% = 3.438 projected

    2. Substract projected by 33.33% (minus 4 months), thus, calculate projected outlays/receipts from Oct 1st, 2018 to May 31st, 2019;

    Outlays; 4.536 - 33.33% = 3.027 projected
    Receipts; 3.438 - 33.33% = 2.292 projected

    Actual cumulative outlays FY2019; 3.014.....lower than projected
    Actual cumulative receipts FY2019; 2.275.....lower than projected by approx. 3/4 of a percent https://www.fiscal.treasury.gov/files/reports-statements/mts/mts0519.pdf

    CONCLUSION; most likely true!......receipts are lower than projected.

     
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  12. nopartisanbull

    nopartisanbull Well-Known Member

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    In addition to the above,

    BPC stated; "The U.S. government could run out of money to pay all of its bills by EARLY September, and back in Feb/Mar 2019, a CBO analysis predicted the Treasury, without a raise in the debt ceiling, will run out of money by the END of September, thus, one month before equates to a shortfall of approx. $35 billion/1%.

    https://gephardtdaily.com/business/treasury-chief-mnuchin-asks-congress-to-raise-u-s-debt-ceiling/
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2019
  13. cd8ed

    cd8ed Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Trump:
    He will be able to get rid of the nation’s more than $19 trillion national debt “over a period of eight years.”

    Also Trump:
    The United States has lost its standing in the world and he would make people “respect our country. I want them to respect our leader.” Asked how his response was an “aura of personality.”
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2019
  14. Texas Republican

    Texas Republican Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    As Fox viewers know, it’s time to buy gold, silver, and catheters.
     
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  15. Vernan89188

    Vernan89188 Well-Known Member

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    Which is better in peoples opinion of tax dollars spent..Erasing student debt, and allowing student loans to go into default, bankruptcy and after 10 years erased? Then, letting the market decide which higher education facility's exist or fail?

    Or what Trump has been doing with with our tax dollars? Building a wall, and making the southern border situation worse?
     
  16. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Donor

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    And Boeing Stock....
     
  17. nopartisanbull

    nopartisanbull Well-Known Member

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    We actually have a spending problem, and an ADDITIONAL revenue problem.

    How Clinton and Bush lowered their deficits?

    a. Budget restraints
    +
    b. ADDITIONAL receipts, both corporate and individual

    CORPORATE

    In today's dollars, Clinton, Bush, and Trump corporate receipts are impartially complex to compare, primarily due to the phenomenal growth of "pass-throughs". However, if we compare slow growth FY2016 and high growth FY2019, same cumulative period, corporate income taxes are still down;

    FY2016 (Oct 1st - May 31st) cumulative corporate income taxes; $162 billion
    FY2019 (Oct 1st - May 31st) cumulative corporate income taxes; $113 billion

    INDIVIDUAL

    Clinton, Bush, and Trump individual receipts are impartially easy to compare, using two method of calculations;

    a. Revenue as a percent of GDP

    Clinton; 18% - 20%
    Bush; 17% - 18%
    Trump; 16% - 17%

    NOTE: at 16.5%, we may not have a revenue problem, however, compared to Clinton and Bush, we certainly have an ADDITIONAL revenue problem.

    b. In today's dollar, average income taxes per employed

    Clinton

    FY2000 individual income taxes; $1.004 trillion
    Number of employed, Sep 30th, 2000; 135,161,000
    Average income taxes per employed; $7,428
    Inflation calculator; $11,046
    https://www.usinflationcalculator.com/
    https://fraser.stlouisfed.org/files/docs/releases/bls/bls_employnews_200009.pdf

    Trump

    FY2018 individual income taxes; $1.684 trillion
    Number of employed, Sep 30th, 2018; 155,962,000
    Average income taxes per employed; $10,797
    https://www.fiscal.treasury.gov/files/reports-statements/mts/mts0918.pdf
    https://www.bls.gov/news.release/archives/empsit_10052018.htm

    Clinton's $11,046 - Trump's $10,797 = an ADDITIONAL $250 per employed
     
  18. squidward

    squidward Well-Known Member

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    Or they just could have cut spending by a whole lot more.
     
  19. nopartisanbull

    nopartisanbull Well-Known Member

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    I agree.

    Compared to Clinton and Bush, we have an additional revenue problem, however, we MAINLY have a spending problem.

    I'm a Jeffersonian/anti-central, thus, my solution; I would transfer several fiscal and administrative responsibilities to the States, and that is how many foreign central governments have lowered their deficits...…"Pass the buck"
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2019
  20. Vernan89188

    Vernan89188 Well-Known Member

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    No matter how you slice it, In a capitalist society the more you spend, or invest correctly, the more you make.

    Trump as president, and lack of any law, degree seems incompetent in investing our tax dollars correctly.
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2019
  21. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    and Trump keeps setting new record debt highs.. sad!

    this was Trump in 2012

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2019
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  22. nopartisanbull

    nopartisanbull Well-Known Member

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    Quote; He will be able to get rid of the nation’s more than $19 trillion national debt “over a period of eight years

    As far as I know, this nonsensical claim has never been echoed by his base......people really aren't that stupid.
     
  23. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    If voting had anything to do with fixing government and if I had the power, I would vote out all members of congress. The continued increase in the debt is going to kill us as a nation. The question is when.
     
  24. Just A Man

    Just A Man Well-Known Member

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    Politicians have proven there are two things they will not control -- Their spending and our border.
     
  25. nopartisanbull

    nopartisanbull Well-Known Member

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    We need to strip several authoritative powers from the federal government, as well as many fiscal/administrative responsibilities, thus, give the States a greater autonomy, and there is one State who could force Congress to act......Texas! (Get your act together, or WE'RE LEAVING!)
     

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