Sweden is Not a Socialist Success

Discussion in 'Budget & Taxes' started by Hoosier8, Mar 7, 2019.

  1. bringiton

    bringiton Well-Known Member

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    No, you most certainly did not, nor will you ever be doing so.
     
  2. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    1) I'm advocating for FAMILIES/COLLECTIVES to take care of their own. Not individuals, GROUPS. That's the basis of socialism, in case you were not aware. I'm not advocating for individuals to opt out of this fundamental social responsibility, as you are. It's outrageous to lead people to believe that they should have no social responsibilities. That is selfishness - the 'every man for himself' bloody-mindedness of aggressive individualist capitalism.

    2) In a 'forced equity' society as you propose, you cannot choose who will be adversely impacted by encouraging people to opt out of social responsibility. Unless you're proposing selective discrimination. Are you? If you answer yes - again, there goes your Justice!

    3) Who decides who is 'rightly suited'? Is this just more of the totalitarian master plan? You will be FORCING the matter. Where's your Liberty!Justice!Freedom! now? And how in hell are you measuring 'successful society'? One man's success is another's failure.

    4) My dear, I've spent a significant portion of my adult life living in the Third World .. all entirely non-Western. Nice try though :)

    5) I'm defending legal right to occupy/utilise that which belongs to the individual. Beyond that you're singing into the breeze. If you want the benefits of property, buy some damned property. Don't want the burden and responsibility of property ownership? Don't buy property. We're free to make that choice, because we enjoy the enormous privilege and freedom of a First World Capitalist Democracy. Freedom and privilege that billions will never enjoy. In fact, that is exactly what Justice!Liberty!Freedom! looks like - the freedom to succeed or fail, own or not own, be an off-grid collectivist committed to non-fiscal self-sufficiency and group equity - or be Jeff Bezos.
     
  3. bringiton

    bringiton Well-Known Member

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    IME disingenuous anti-justice apologists for landowner privilege are incapable of experiencing embarrassment. They rationalize and justify an evil that inflicts two Holocausts per year on innocent people. If that doesn't embarrass them, what could?
     
  4. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    Yes, the peasant who lives to 110, with an intact family, who did not plunder the earth and had no bad habits is indeed the ultimate in human 'smarts' by any practical measure. Having said that, we have benefitted enormously from the select few who had the WEALTH to invent (the leisure to think and consider was always a function of opportunity, not genetics), and we are now at the fortunate place where the combination is arguably close to ideal. The low-impact self sufficient life, coupled with modern medicine and technology.

    I have no clue why you keep trying to factor in 'mental illness' and 'trauma'. We're not discussing outliers, we're discussing ordinary, functional adults.
     
  5. bringiton

    bringiton Well-Known Member

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    It's still supererogatory.
    The basis of socialism is blaming the factory owner for what the landowner does to the worker.
    Strawman. I'm just saying that it's better to distribute to the many such burdens as are destructively onerous when borne by a few.
    Absurd strawman. People are responsible for respecting each other's rights and discharging their voluntarily chosen duties.
    Huh? How is distribution of overly onerous burdens in any way like aggressive individualist capitalism?
    Nor can we choose who will be adversely impacted by forced INequity.
    There's nothing unjust about discriminating based on people's behavior and choices.
    HR professionals, same as for any other job.
    <yawn>
    People's rights cannot be defended against force except by force.
    GDP/capita is a reasonable proxy.
    Oh? Then how did you avoid seeing that their model of social responsibility is inferior to the First World's?
    What makes it "belong to" that individual? How has everyone else's liberty right to occupy or utilize it been extinguished?
    <sigh> "If you want the benefits of owning other people's rights to liberty, buy some damn slaves."
    Owning land is a privilege, not a burden or responsibility.
    What disingenuous nonsense. Slaves are also "free" to buy their liberty from their owners.

    If you have to pay someone else for permission to exercise your right to liberty, you don't have a right to liberty.
    Funny how that freedom and privilege turn out to be useless when your right to liberty is owned by others....
    The fact that other systems are worse doesn't mean no system can be better.
    Garbage. You could with equal "logic" tell slaves that they are free to own or not own slaves, same as anyone else.
    Bezos is a massive beneficiary of government-issued and -enforced privilege.
     
  6. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    You're tying yourself into pretzels to avoid your own clangers. Time to rethink your position - it's a dud, with respect.
     
  7. gottzilla

    gottzilla Banned

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    A lot of people are simply unaware of the consequences for non beneficiaries of our land tenure system. If after repeated attempts at education they continue to deny the elephant in the room, they in some way become de facto supporters of this injustice, at least those who are clearly above average intellect and merely lack the integrity to accept it. Though it doesn't take a genius to understand that land hasn't become more abundant since being traded in a "free market". It's about controlling points of access to the community, to the economy, to the opportunities that people need to function as an indiviudal, a family, and society as a whole; and those points of access would exist without its owners "contribution". Even children understand that if there was a theme park with a 100$ entrance fee, but some conmen blocked their way and demanded they pay them an additional $100 before they are even allowed to get to the gate to buy the ticket, that that's unfair.
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2019
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  8. rahl

    rahl Banned

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    You are fully aware it’s been proven false.
     
  9. rahl

    rahl Banned

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    This statement shows you didn’t read it.

    Land is privately owned in China. It is not a georgist society.
     
  10. rahl

    rahl Banned

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    You are fully aware that oven proven it false.
     
  11. gottzilla

    gottzilla Banned

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    Are you one of those people that believes posting links automatically constitutes proof, regardless of the content within whatever website you link to?
     
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  12. rahl

    rahl Banned

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    No, I’m one of those people that proves their argument, with the help of links. As I did.
     
  13. gottzilla

    gottzilla Banned

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    The HK and Chinese government disagree with you.
     
  14. rahl

    rahl Banned

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    No they don’t, as I showed you.
     
  15. CourtJester

    CourtJester Well-Known Member

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    Gee I thought according to Trump we were the country being invaded!
     
  16. CourtJester

    CourtJester Well-Known Member

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    Socialism is the government owing the means of production. See below. You are entitled to your own opinions but not your own definition of words.
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2019
  17. bringiton

    bringiton Well-Known Member

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    No. You are just makin' $#!+ up again. You are fully aware that it has never been proven false, and you have consequently not been able to cite any source showing it has. The one pathetic attempt you made did not even address the correctness of George's analysis. That is why you could not -- and will never be able to -- quote any text that supports your claim.
     
  18. bringiton

    bringiton Well-Known Member

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    They do, and you showed no such thing. Stop makin' $#!+ up.
     
  19. bringiton

    bringiton Well-Known Member

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    Nope. Flat false. You proved only that you can provide links that don't support your claims, which have been proved false again and again.
     
  20. rahl

    rahl Banned

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    You are fully aware it’s been proven false.
     
  21. rahl

    rahl Banned

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    You’ve been shown otherwise
     
  22. rahl

    rahl Banned

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    You are fully aware it’s been proven false.
     
  23. bringiton

    bringiton Well-Known Member

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    Wrong again. I did read it. I had read it before you linked to it: unlike you, I am actually informed on the subject. That is why you can't actually quote any portion of the text you linked to that actually supports your claim about what it says.
    Nope. That claim is known to be objectively false. No land in China is privately owned.
    But it is closer to being geoist than either capitalist or socialist.
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2019
  24. rahl

    rahl Banned

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    Great. Then you know you are incorrect.
     
  25. bringiton

    bringiton Well-Known Member

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    <yawn> Nope. Your claims continue to be false and unsupported. Despicably.

    However, Nobel economics laureate Milton Friedman has some words of wisdom for you:

    "The least bad tax is the property tax on the unimproved value of land, the Henry George argument of many, many years ago."

    Are you claiming that Friedman supported an analysis that had been proven wrong? Why would he do that?
     

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