Israeli air strikes target Palestinian group in eastern Lebanon

Discussion in 'Latest US & World News' started by alexa, Aug 26, 2019.

  1. MGB ROADSTER

    MGB ROADSTER Banned

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    https://iran-hrm.com/index.php/2018/06/25/harrowing-realities-iran-torture/
    [​IMG]
     
  2. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Well-Known Member

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    Lashing is a form of punishment that is allowed under Iran's penal code after someone is convicted of a crime. It is not torture. While the punishment is derided in the West as "barbaric", I actually believe that for crimes that involve conduct with a low risk of recidivism, and which can be deterred and retribution served by lashing, this is a better punishment than prison. But to each his own! I can post pictures of American convicts suffering the brutality of prison. Or on their way to being administered "lethal injection". None of that would be pretty either. But what I will post (give a minute), instead of pictures of convicted criminals and the punishment they might be getting, is the statistics on America and its criminal justice system, which holds 2.5 million people behind bars and which nonetheless suffers some of the greatest crime rates in the world despite doing so.
     
  3. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Well-Known Member

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  4. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Well-Known Member

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    Now compared to the United States, I will take the statistics from the source you mentioned (even though, HRW does NOT investigate cases in Iran and only relies on one side of the story, namely the one given by the lawyers representing the accused or the ones convicted). Still, lets assume what they say is true. Forget the adjectives they use, look at the statistics and compare it with 2.5 million people in prison in the US! How many cases of abuse can I find among them in the US? And if I could have less than 200 people who have been convicted of crimes suffer a punishment that is seen as "brutal" in the West, and not have to see 2.5 million of our population in prison instead, I take that any day!

    https://iran-hrm.com/index.php/2018/06/25/harrowing-realities-iran-torture/
    Statistics:

    During 2017 in Iran

    • At least 25 people have been sentenced to amputation
    • At least 99 people received flogging sentences
    • There were at least 38 reported instances of prisoner abuse and torture
    • And in at least 7 instances, security forces degraded detainees by publicly parading them on the streets in a humiliating manner or beaten them up.


    During the first six months of 2018

    • At least 47 people received flogging sentences
    • There were at least one reported instances of hand amputation
    • At least five prisoners were flogged
    • Security forces degraded at least 10 detainees by publicly parading them on the streets in a humiliating manner or beaten them up.
    p.s.
    As HRW knows full well, being "sentenced" and having those sentences carried out, are not at all the same thing in Iran. In most of these cases, these sentences are later either suspended on appeal or reversed. But I am not even sure bowing to western notions of civilized punishment (as opposed to following rigorous notions of due process for the accused, which I do support strongly) is the right answer in dealing with crime anyway. Who in his right mind would want to follow the lead of the United States on what is the right way to deal with crime?
     
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2019
  5. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Sorry that is not true and that man failed at nothing. He ran a peace site for god knows how many years. I do not think his position was the one I would have chosen but I do know he had integrity. He stuck with it and worked for the two state solution from the time he was fighting for an Israel to his death.

    Who I do know is the liar par excellence is the State of Israel. Two quick examples. It published the real talk between it and the MM. I was one of the few people who heard it because after half an hour it removed it and put in its false one of them saying all the antisemite things which it used as an excuse to go onboard and murder. It has been well proven that what it claimed were things said that night from the MM were from other incidents.

    Secondly it kidnapped the cousin of Ahmid Tamimi when he had half his skull missing and terrified him until he went along with them and said that the problem with his skull was caused because he fell off his bike. They then announced this to the world. This despite the reality that their were hospital records showing that what was indeed the problem was an Israeli bullet in his skull. The shooting of her 14 year old cousin was what had enraged Ahmid so much she had hit the soldier and Israel was risking his life to try and stop the world from knowing it. I haver never been aware of a country which lies so much as Israel. That you choose to try to smear someone who acted with honour all his life tells me more about you than anything.

    So you try to suggest URI Avnery was a liar trying to advance an agenda. You choose instead to believe Sharon. You have the wrong one there. I don't suppose you have any respect for Ben-Gurion.

    https://morningstaronline.co.uk/a-74d8-Ariel-Sharon-a-crippling-legacy

    In that article Avnery speaks about how he wanted the Palestinians to take over Jordan, how he wanted to conquer Iran and showed Avnery maps for how he hoped to achieve this. Here however he also speaks about Sharon's plans for Lebanon

    https://morningstaronline.co.uk/a-74d8-Ariel-Sharon-a-crippling-legacy

    He writes about this in far more detail in another article and I will see if I can find it. In the rest of the article he goes on to describe the character of Sharon.

    The only agenda Uri Avnery, who was there at the creation of Israel had, was peace and justice for the Palestinians through a two state solution. I clearly was wrong when I understood that is what American Jews want and have claimed to want all these years if you believe an Israeli Jew wanting that has an agenda.
     
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2019
  6. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Well-Known Member

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    So, in 2017, Iran (with a population of 80+ million) had a total of 38 cases of prisoner abuse being reported. Even one abuse is too many. But how does that compare to America, where you have thousands of prisoners abused daily in many of its states with populations a fraction of that of Iran? Since when do the folks who post the reports from HRW about people convicted of crimes in Iran ever cared about treatment of prisoners?

    https://newrepublic.com/article/153473/everyday-brutality-americas-prisons
    The Everyday Brutality of America’s Prisons
    It's not just Alabama. Inmates across the country are living—and dying—in horrific conditions.
     
  7. MGB ROADSTER

    MGB ROADSTER Banned

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    Palestine is Jordan.
    And the Only lies are in the pro Islamo Jihado Palestinian wall of lies.
     
  8. Eleuthera

    Eleuthera Well-Known Member Donor

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    Marfan syndrome does not kill people. However it can lead to conditions or illnesses that can kill people.

    OBL died and was buried in December 2001.

    The Abbottabad Dog & Pony Show was meant to fool the gullible American voter and media. It succeeded.
     
  9. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Well-Known Member

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    Lets test that proposition: you claimed (without any basis) that the video I posted by that American visitor to Iran was probably paid for by Iran's government. You basically were saying in your comments that he was trying to show an Iran that was false, since the country was a "sh**thole" in your mind.

    In this day and age, this can be tested even by someone who doesn't move away from their computer. All you need is to go to Google Earth and go to Iran. Start with where he started, Iran's largest city, Tehran. See that city for yourself, visiting the Milad Tower to first watch the city from above. Then try to navigate the city for yourself and in whatever direction you like, trying to watch at least a bit from every angle. Then go to the historic city of Isfahan and its sites and sounds; to Mashhad, Tabriz, as well as the historic towns of Yazd and Kashan; to the Caspian coast, or Iran's resort island of Kish in the Persian Gulf (which attracts millions of Iranian visitors each year). In the winter, go for yourself to the any of the several dozen ski resorts in Iran. Go to see around any of Iran's shopping malls, from the ones that rate among the largest in the world, to your average run of the mill ones. Visit its universities, where you will find more females students than male ones. You can do all that now: and anyone who wants to know who is lying and who is not, is encouraged to do the same.

    Technology has made your lies something that can only work for the ignorant and those who are too lazy to even verify things when what they are being told is disputed. Otherwise, I have a hard time understanding how so many in America are still so ignorant.

    Here, I will help jump start your search:
    https://earth.google.com/web/@35.74...h,45t,0r/data=ChMaEQoJL20vMDJuemduGAIgASgCKAI
    From here, use the 'search' bottom and go anywhere you like!
     
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  10. Ronstar

    Ronstar Well-Known Member Past Donor

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  11. US Conservative

    US Conservative Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Looks like an Iranian rocket exploded on the launch pad. Again.

    [​IMG]
     
  12. undertheradar

    undertheradar Newly Registered

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    Who is responsible for the creation of Hamas?

    'On 7 June, 2005, BBC radio news reported that British officials were to meet the Islamic organisation Hamas at 'low levels... mayors not implicated in the violence'. Most of the report was devoted not to the significance of the meeting (Hamas had agreed to be part of a Palestinian ceasefire) but to an Israeli government official repeatedly complaining about 'dealing with terrorists'. Not a single Palestinian was interviewed.

    'The report was an example of how secret history is kept secret, for no mention was made of the fact that the Israelis themselves had actually helped to set up and fund Hamas as part of a 'direct attempt to divide and dilute support for a strong, secular PLO by using a competing religious alternative', in the words of a former Middle East CIA official. This as well as and other evidence is in documents obtained from the Israel-based Institute for Counter Terrorism.'

    ~ John Pilger, Freedom Next Time


    'Israel and Hamas may currently be locked in deadly combat, but, according to several current and former U.S. intelligence officials, beginning in the late 1970s, Tel Aviv gave direct and indirect financial aid to Hamas over a period of years.

    Israel "aided Hamas directly -- the Israelis wanted to use it as a counterbalance to the PLO (Palestinian Liberation Organization)," said Tony Cordesman, Middle East analyst for the Center for Strategic Studies.

    Israel's support for Hamas "was a direct attempt to divide and dilute support for a strong, secular PLO by using a competing religious alternative," said a former senior CIA official.'


    https://www.upi.com/Defense-News/2002/06/18/Analysis-Hamas-history-tied-to-Israel/82721024445587/
     
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  13. Thingamabob

    Thingamabob Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Standard clandestine tactics of the Amero-Israeli machine. Al Qaida, ISIS, Hamas. Creating - Supporting - Funding Terrorism. Then playing the victim.
     
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2019
    alexa and Jazz like this.
  14. Jazz

    Jazz Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Because of the "Holocaust"!
     
  15. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I don't think that is the reason. I think it is more because of the coalition between Christian Zionists and the Israel extreme right. That is without the Christian Zionists and their influence on the US it would not work and they are basically antisemites who want all Jews into Israel so that they can have an Armageddon and kill most of them. Israel just believes that part won't work. I grant that Israel itself uses the holocaust since it discovered it would work for them in the 60's, having previously treated holocaust survivors like inferior beings. Israel does not care about antisemitism. It loves it because it shares the Christian Zionist desire to get all Jews into Israel. Hence Israel has changed the concept of antisemitism from one of being hatred of Jews for being 'Jews' to one of a political view of Israel. Basically antisemitism now is not supporting Colonialism and ethnic nationalism. Israel itself is best friends with all the up coming Ethnic Nationalist countries despite the rise in antisemitism in these countries and the concerns of Jews living in them.

    Israel massively abuses the holocaust of course and her supporters do too but many holocaust survivors do not support Israel. A Jewish Rabbi put a lecture on You Tube where he argued that Zionists were not interested in protecting themselves against antisemitism, Zionists wanted to protect themselves against Judaism. He believed that what Zionists wanted to do was to give up Jewish values and take on those of the antisemites and it certainly looks like he was right.
     
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2019
  16. Jazz

    Jazz Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I'm very happy to see Canada so low! Best country to live in!!!
     
  17. notme

    notme Well-Known Member

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  18. Jazz

    Jazz Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Well, I guess the above is only the first step in a series of treatments to "bring democracy" to the people of the Middle East.
     
  19. undertheradar

    undertheradar Newly Registered

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    Playing the victim indeed. Just like they do with the 'holocaust'.
     
  20. undertheradar

    undertheradar Newly Registered

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  21. Thingamabob

    Thingamabob Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I see no connection. The Jews of Europe did not create, support, or fund the Nazis. In any case, Jews were individuals, not a national entity.
     
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2019
  22. Pisa

    Pisa Well-Known Member

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    This is a perfect example of how to distort reality to manipulate readers into believing absolute nonsense.

    The article has so many faults, it literally cries "sloppy unethical journalism". Unnamed sources, use of quotes taken out of context without mentioning the source (classic maneuver to hide context contradicting the author's agenda), wrong dates, wrong names, unproven premises, not a single attempt to present the other side's point of view. Sloppy and unethical.

    Facts contradicting the narrative, or explaining in some other way the realities we see today, are completely missing from the article. A piece for the willfully blind.
     
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2019
  23. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Well-Known Member

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    It is sad that Trump couldn't resist taunting Iran, even revealing photographs from an intelligence briefing, to carry on his taunt. While he claimed to 'deny' the US was involved, he was actually confirming it, inviting Iran to investigate what had happened. Which we don't need to, since in the past, the US has actually confirmed that it has been sabotaging Iran's missile and space rocket program. And Iran has accused the US of the same in the past.

    There are, however, important things to learn from this -- both for you, to understand the nature of America's war against Iran, and for Iran, to understand the vulnerabilities that the US and Israel seek to exploit in Iran's program. I will break up this message into 2 parts, but start first with the basic facts to provide context to what I have to say in my next post.

    1- Iran was only the 7th nation in the world to successfully carry a satellite into orbit using a domestic space launch vehicle a decade ago. At the time, several attempts by North Korea to the same had ended in failure and it was only afterwards that North Korea succeeded in launching a satellite into orbit. Since, then Iran has had several satellites launched into orbit and even sent a monkey into space as well. It was even planning a man mission into space, which was more recently cancelled due to budgetary reasons.
    2- The US sounds alarms about Iran's space program because it says it uses the same technology that can be used in developing ICBMs. That is not entirely true. And that is not the principal driver behind America's policies on Iran's space program. Unlike ballistic missiles, whose research and development is carried out by Iran separately anyway and with a far greater budget, space rocket launch vehicles (while using similar technologies which Iran's space program received from our military program and benefits from, and not in the reverse track) are designed to be launched from platforms that are easy to detect, with their preparation taking place days (sometimes weeks) before the launch. For military purposes, they would be useless as the US would know well before in advance about such a launch and could sabotage or directly take out these kind of rockets. And if Iran wanted to develop an ICBM, and the associated technologies, why should it use a civilian space rocket program for this purpose? Just because the US followed that path doesn't mean Iran needs to! We have an active military ballistic missile program and could carry out the necessary research there -- and far more effectively!
    3- The main concern of the US, and Iranian emigres who have a hard time accepting that during the Shah's time when Iran was "so modern" (because girls wore mini-skirts) but couldn't produce anything on its own and yet under the "backward Ayatollahs" Iran is producing all sorts of things in all sorts of spheres, including launching satellites into space, is the propaganda war against Iran and its regime. A nation with a successful space program is harder to depict as a '7th century theocracy' trying to take Iran backwards as opposed to forwards.
    4- Including this one, Iran has suffered 3 successive failed space launches more recently, after years where it had experienced basically no such failures. Iran's civilian space launch program is definitely compromised in various ways. Both through cyber warfare techniques (sophisticated computer viruses), through planting of intentionally defective equipment through the network that comprises the supply chain for this program, and through other acts of sabotage. Unlike a military institution, it will be harder for Iran to clean up things in Iran's space program and to adequately protect it from such acts of sabotage in the future.
     
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2019
  24. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Well-Known Member

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    All of what I mention above ultimately shows one fact: the US is waging war on Iran and its people, not so much on Iran's political leaders. America's allies in its war against Iran aren't the average Iranian citizen, who find nothing comforting in the arenas which the US has chosen to wage its war (be it economically, or in the technological arenas or otherwise), but -- besides the usual suspects in Israel -- Iranian emigres who can't accept that their ridiculous propaganda against the current regime in Iran is not selling in Iran simply because it is so obviously false!

    There are, to be sure, serious issues with the regime in Iran -- and real warts that can be revealed. The regime is ultimately corrupt, far more interested in saving its own skin than anything else (which is why the US and Europeans are willing to work with it to thwart things that have actual popular support in Iran --and why the regime sometimes capitulate on those things). But partly because the regime is not entirely "undemocratic", and does have many institutions that rely on popular support, and because its main power really is Iran's people (even if those people often need to hold their noses supporting it), even this corrupt regime is steered by Iran and its society towards policies that have popular support and are meant to serve Iran's interests. Which apparently the US finds against its own interests!

    The US is basically following a script by a group of discredited out of touch emigre figures (and that is leaving aside the MEK, which is simply a cult of traitors with terrorist connections and past) who are ultimately watched in Iran more for their entertainment value as comedians than any real political commentary they have to offer. And that just shows how badly America is conducting its war against Iran -- and it also shows who are the real targets of its war in the first place. That target has always been the Iranian people, and their quest for independence and progress. The US has no problems dealing with Iran's "regime" -- so long as the regime is convinced to trade support from the people on these things for support from outsiders. And that is the real truth behind everything else you like to peddle.
     
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2019
  25. US Conservative

    US Conservative Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Iran is still a radical islamist theocracy.

    And so it will lose.
     

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