Feminist activist in Iran sentenced to 24 years in prison for removing hijab.

Discussion in 'Middle East' started by JessCurious, Sep 7, 2019.

  1. Fred C Dobbs

    Fred C Dobbs Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Well that seems reasonable enough, otherwise women will be demanding other rights also.. Of course protesting can add another 14 years and 10 months on to the sentence and that seems a bit strict..

    Will she be stoned to death if she reoffends?
     
  2. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Well-Known Member

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    Protesting in a legal fashion won't cause as much grief. Protesting to the tune of those setting up the protests from outside could, if it isn't your first time and you have already served a sentence for a similar thing. Of course, even the 15 year sentence you are alluding to isn't a final sentence and if we visit this thread next year or two, you might even find news about her being rearrested following her release from her actual sentence and then going about this thing as before.

    Yesterday, I was watching a debate that involved a prominent Iranian dissident thinker and professor who lives in Iran, namely Professor Zibakalam. He is critical, among other things, when it comes to everything you might not like about Iran, including Iran's policies regarding Israel. Ordinarily, he keeps his criticisms sharp but within legal bounds, but he occasionally goes further and is arrested. What surprised me seeing him was that I had read in one of the kind of outlets that claim such sentences for others too, that he had been convicted to serve a long sentence. But there he was doing the things he is famous for, giving an interview to a foreign satellite station and saying all the these things he always would say!
     
  3. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Well-Known Member

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    I mentioned watching professor Zibakalam giving his interview sitting in Tehran last night to a satellite station based outside of Iran. His appeal must have been successful. In fact, more successful than he himself claimed would be the most 'optimistic' outcome from his appeal!

    I don't know any initial sentence that isn't substantially reduced on 'appeal', where the final verdict is actually issued in Iran's system.

    https://www.iranhumanrights.org/201...-sadegh-zibakalam-decries-censorship-in-iran/
    Sentenced to Prison For His Political Views, Sadegh Zibakalam Decries Censorship in Iran

     
  4. Fred C Dobbs

    Fred C Dobbs Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    What sort of things was Professor Zibakalam saying and what are the legal boundaries?
     
  5. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Well-Known Member

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    The case of Professor Zibakalam is actually reflective of a lot of issues being discussed here when it comes to the contours of free expression, limits on it, and how these issues are treated in Iran if someone cannot be shown to be taking direction from foreign powers. In this regard, if tomorrow Professor Zibakalam says any of what he says trying to encourage people to join protests at a place and time being broadcast by invitations issued from foreign based social media and satellite networks, he will then be confronted much more seriously. But as long as he is doing it on his own, he will be tolerated -- even if no one ultimately likes someone who attacks them!

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sadegh_Zibakalam
    Sadegh Zibakalam

    p.s.
    see also
    https://www.jewishpress.com/multime...step-on-israeli-or-american-flags/2016/11/06/
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2019
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  6. Fred C Dobbs

    Fred C Dobbs Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Given that "the authorities have no tolerance for free speech" aren't you ever concerned about being propagandized yourself?
     
  7. Fred C Dobbs

    Fred C Dobbs Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The link doesn't seem to work. Thanks and good night.
     
  8. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Well-Known Member

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    No, because while there is a monopoly of news that you are exposed to, I get to watch everything you watch through satellite and then some, but also watch what the other side from Iran over what they have a monopoly on.
     
  9. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Well-Known Member

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    Good night, but here is where you can find a video of him (with English subtitles courtesy of MEMRI) where he advocates his views on Iranian state television. He also mentions his view of why he is allowed to speak openly on the issue, without the censorship he claims exists in Iran! (He is not a lawyer and doesn't get some of the real distinctions).
    https://www.memri.org/tv/iranian-reformist-intellectual-zibakalam-defiance-iranian-regimes-missishipon-destroy-israel
    IRANIAN REFORMIST INTELLECTUAL ZIBAKALAM IN DEFIANCE OF THE IRANIAN REGIME'S "MISSION" TO DESTROY ISRAEL
    November 12, 2016
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2019
  10. truth and justice

    truth and justice Well-Known Member

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    You may or may have not noticed that Iranian Monitor also criticizes Islam and the Iranian leaders. This sort of debunks your post ie I'm quite sure that he lives in Iran and am definitely sure that if the Iranian authorities were so against free speech and public criticism they could easily find out who he is
     
  11. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Well-Known Member

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    I posted regularly on this forum from Iran and saying everything I am saying now. But my recent postings aren't from Iran. Neither when I was in Iran, nor at this time, I would consider my posts a criticism of "Islam", but rather an expression of the fact that I am not religious and don't believe policy should be determined by any dogma, whether religious or otherwise. Issues and criticisms regarding religion to me are best carried out among and between the faithful, while people like me will and should have the right to disagree and criticize policies or practices we don't agree with. Of course, in this forum, most of my posts have actually been in the opposite direction, as the people I am addressing my comments to are not Iranians but foreigners who want to engage in lies and propaganda against Iran. Or otherwise dictate their views on how another society should handle its issues.

    I also posted one video -- among many -- where you have people (addressing their comments to a domestic audience) criticizing its policies, even on state television, including on some of the most taboo subjects such as Israel. The main distinction is whether what you are doing is expressing your views or whether what you are doing can be seen as working directly or indirectly with a foreign group to impose its views on Iran. The latter isn't protected in Iran while the former by and large is (if the views are scholarly in nature as opposed to being ones that seek to merely incite emotions and hatred).

    p.s.
    While it would have been nice if MEMRI had let the entire interview, including the questions, be translated, the video from this group (which is allied to the opposite camp than Iran) is still quite telling of the contours and extents to which opposing or dissident views will be allowed in Iran. And when they would not be. I recommend watching that video of Professor Zibakalam's interview with Iranian television for that reason. He, incidentally, gives the most rational argument against Iran's on the issue of Israel, without the need to say things which aren't true.
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2019
  12. free man

    free man Well-Known Member

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    Care to provide an example where he did so?
    I could not find one.
    One for critisizing Islam and one for critisizing iranian leaders.
    Anyways, he is not in Iran so it does not really matter.
     
  13. JessCurious

    JessCurious Well-Known Member

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    The article you posted gave a link which said Amnesty International has been accused of both Western and anti-Western bias.
    It said it has been criticized by the US, Israel, China, Vietnam, and Russia. I'm sure none of these countries like having their
    Human Rights records questioned. Sounds like Amnesty is doing a good, impartial job. It would be amazing if Amnesty didn't
    have critics! I'm sure that when Amnesty criticizes the United States you regard them as an unimpeachable source!

    Of course, Amnesty International isn't the only Human Rights group to complain about Iran. Reporters Without Borders ranked
    Iran in 2019 as 170th in its World Press Freedom Index fort freedom of the press, and said "Iran has been one of the world's most repressive countries for journalists for the past 40 years. State control of news and information is unrelenting and at least 860
    journalists and citizen-journalists have been imprisoned or executed since 1979." It also said, "Iran is the World's biggest
    jailer of women journalists." https://rsf.org/en/iran

    According to Wikipedia's article on Women's rights in Iran, "Women's rights in Iran are limited compared to the women in
    developed nations. The World Economic Forum's 2017 Global Gender Gap ranked Iran 140 out of 144 countries for gender
    parity."

    Human Rights Watch says, "President Hassan Rouhani secured a second four-year term in May 2017, in an election marked
    by debate over the state of civil and political rights in Iran. But harsh criticisms he made on the human rights situation during his campaign, he has done little to curtail the rampant violations of the security apparatus and the judiciary. Authorities responded
    to widespread protests expressing frustration against the government, including allegations of corruption and the lack of political
    and social freedoms, with mass arbitrary arrests and unfair trials." https://www.hrw.org/middle-east/n-africa/Iran

    Iran's standing with pretty much all Human Rights Groups is pretty low.
     
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  14. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Well-Known Member

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    Any so-called "human rights' group to investigate claims made about abuses, and simply narrates stories that are fed to it by alleged victims, their lawyers and dissidents, will ultimately do a poor job. Particularly, if they are reporting from a country like Iran which has plenty of enemies internationally and few friends to help correct the image they are presenting. This is even more true for Iran because its revolution was anti-western ideologically: its espousal of religion alienates the left; its anti-US/anti-Israel posture among other things alienates the right in the western political divide. Add to it the inordinate influence of a terrorist cult, the MEK, in and among the ranks of those who work on its reports on Iran, and you end up with what you have been presented. Which is pretty much factoids or falsehoods as the basis of a lot of what is said.

    Anyway, I am not under any illusion that I would be able to change decades of false reporting on Iran, aided by groups you mentioned. Instead, the best I can do is to at least tackle some specific so-called facts and issues that are raised. At the end, people will draw their own conclusions.
     
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  15. chris155au

    chris155au Well-Known Member

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    Reasonable by non-Western standards though, right?
     
  16. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Well-Known Member

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    Watch this short video by Euro news. You can mute the sound if you want, since it is in Persian.
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2019
  17. Mr_Truth

    Mr_Truth Well-Known Member

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    While that index ranks Iran at # 170, it ranks Trump's allies in Saudi Arabia at #172.
     
  18. chris155au

    chris155au Well-Known Member

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    Oh, so the Saudi's weren't also OBAMA'S allies? Are you under the impression that they aren't simply US allies and therefore the ally of any President? Or do you just embarrassingly and dishonestly single out Trump to any negative thing? :roflol:
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2019
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  19. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Well-Known Member

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    Trust me: the difference between #170 and #172 is greater than the difference between whoever is ranked #1 and #170!
     
  20. Fred C Dobbs

    Fred C Dobbs Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The fact that a woman can be imprisoned for two months for not wearing a headscarf says as much about Iran as a Westerner needs to know, and everything flows from there. That is from you so assume it is not any anti Iranian propaganda.
     
  21. Fred C Dobbs

    Fred C Dobbs Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The Saudis are Iran's latest enemy so we can expect some insults in their direction.
     
  22. Fred C Dobbs

    Fred C Dobbs Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    No, it is not reasonable at all. Being ironic on this board can be easilly misunderstood.
     
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  23. JessCurious

    JessCurious Well-Known Member

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    It is worth noting that these same groups also criticize the US, Israel, and Saudi Arabia. This would seem to show that they
    are more impartial than you claim.
     
  24. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Well-Known Member

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    Not really, because I didn't say they take direction from these governments. Rather, they represent people who live and operate in environments which aren't conducive to forming rational thoughts about Iran!
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2019
  25. lpast

    lpast Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Its things like this and burying people up to their necks and stoning them to death for being gay or being accused of adultury, cutting off heads and public hangings and beatings to death, that makes me incredulous that liberals will defend muslim countries and considier israel the bad guy.
     
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