Rantz: Seattle Schools document say math is oppressive, US government racist

Discussion in 'Latest US & World News' started by SEAL Team V, Oct 8, 2019.

  1. Robert E Allen

    Robert E Allen Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2018
    Messages:
    12,041
    Likes Received:
    5,750
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    The fact that we are even talking about math being racist and that a school spent time investigating the idea shows we have serious problems and are wasting money on them.

    For years we taught math in a one size fits all approach and it made us the best in the world. Our experiments in teaching it other ways have failed.
    Go back to the old ways.
     
  2. Adfundum

    Adfundum Moderator Staff Member Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2018
    Messages:
    7,683
    Likes Received:
    4,171
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    The course in question is an Ethnic Studies course, not a Math course.
     
    Iranian Monitor likes this.
  3. Robert E Allen

    Robert E Allen Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2018
    Messages:
    12,041
    Likes Received:
    5,750
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male

    Why is their an ethnic studies course in a public school?
     
  4. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2015
    Messages:
    6,504
    Likes Received:
    1,646
    Trophy Points:
    113
    This OP is clearly nonsense and only meant to excite people in a particular direction. But it gives me the opportunity to rant more about something that truly bothers me with the prevailing standards of education and intellectual discourse in the West. What was once a vibrant educational and intellectual climate in the West has descended on both sides of America's larger political divide, to a mockery of true intellectual discourse. Among the "left" you have a total disregard of actual history to promote one set of supposedly "politically correct" agendas. Among the "right", you have the opposite: an intentional misrepresentation of almost every historical fact and political event to fit an utterly racist agenda. In the process, one of the most profound civilizations and cultures, namely that of Iran -- not just its contributions, but more importantly, what you actually can learn from it -- has been lost and buried under a pile of nonsense.

    The case of Arthur Comte de Gobineau, the French aristocrat and diplomat who served in 19th century Iran, who became the 'father' of so-called 'scientific racism' basically throws light on everything that is wrong with Western education. One the one hand, he stands for someone who actually studied Iranian history and discovered how much it had influenced almost all human civilizations, including Western civilization. On the other hand, he wanted to appropriate all of it for his favorite 'race': northern Europeans or Nordics, which he then called "Aryans" (Iranians)! After the horrific chapter in human history occasioned by such ideology came to an end with the defeat of Nazi Germany, many "intellectuals" associated with the other end of the spectrum (including prominent Jewish ones) did all they could to tell the story in an anti-intellectual and ridiculously false or misleading manner. In the process, everything that has to do with Iran has been essentially buried under a pile of nonsense. Even the name of the country (which used to be called only Persia is the West but was always known as Iran to Iranians) became the subject to these misleading polemics. The whole thing has become so ridiculous that all I need to do is often look at pictures of Iran and Iranians and guess (usually correctly) if the person is a pro Israeli journalist or writer! It doesn't even matter if the words used are complimentary: the effort to implant a false picture about Iran is pervasive. Shame on all those who have done this to my beautiful country and its great heritage.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_de_Gobineau
    Persia: Gobineau's spiritual home[edit]
     
    Sallyally likes this.
  5. squidward

    squidward Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2009
    Messages:
    37,112
    Likes Received:
    9,515
    Trophy Points:
    113
    We wouldn't want these kids to learn enough to become un-poor and un-depedent now would we
     
  6. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2015
    Messages:
    6,504
    Likes Received:
    1,646
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Read my post above since you above all would have benefited from such a course -- albeit not necessarily some of the nonsense that is taught in such courses by the left.
     
  7. Adfundum

    Adfundum Moderator Staff Member Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2018
    Messages:
    7,683
    Likes Received:
    4,171
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Couldn't agree more with the underlined part above. Both sides of the political spectrum have inserted themselves into education and made it into a pathetic joke.
     
  8. HonestJoe

    HonestJoe Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2010
    Messages:
    14,841
    Likes Received:
    4,815
    Trophy Points:
    113
    We’re not and they didn’t. This kind of gross misunderstanding is exactly why the kind of lies in the OP are such a problem. Nothing personal, you’re a victim here.

    There isn’t an ethnic studies course. There is apparently a social studies course of which this topic appears to be one part. As I mentioned before, the way the article linked the material has made it difficult to look in to its true context.
     
  9. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2015
    Messages:
    6,504
    Likes Received:
    1,646
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Yes, but even the parts you didn't underline are equally true (even if admittedly a rant).
     
  10. Adfundum

    Adfundum Moderator Staff Member Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2018
    Messages:
    7,683
    Likes Received:
    4,171
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    I can't say for certain, but this seems to be one of the electives to go along with the SS requirements for WA.
     
  11. Robert E Allen

    Robert E Allen Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2018
    Messages:
    12,041
    Likes Received:
    5,750
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male

    So you're saying they did a CNN?
     
  12. Adfundum

    Adfundum Moderator Staff Member Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2018
    Messages:
    7,683
    Likes Received:
    4,171
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Ha! Patting yourself on the back? Rant on.
     
  13. Mac-7

    Mac-7 Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2011
    Messages:
    86,664
    Likes Received:
    17,636
    Trophy Points:
    113
    So teaching kids that math is racist is ok if its in a social “science” class?

    This is liberal/progressive lunacy on display and its definitely disturbing

    Lib educators have lost their minds
     
  14. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2015
    Messages:
    6,504
    Likes Received:
    1,646
    Trophy Points:
    113
    If it wasn't for the obvious lies, the irritating agendas, the total falsehoods, I wouldn't even try to pat "myself" on the back, especially as I personally ultimately have nothing more to do with that history than you! Indeed, for all of what I said being true, I am also usually the first to tell semi-educated and chauvinist Iranians about Western civilization -- and all that it has actually contributed. For me, the ancient Greeks (who the Persians weren't able to conquer) were indeed among the most intellectually vibrant people. Remarkably so, while the ancient Iranians -- whose greatest contributions were mainly derivative of their historical power and the overall longevity of various Iranian empires -- didn't have any truly significant intellectual contribution to learning outside of the ethical teachings of ancient Iranian 'prophets' such as Zoroaster. That is before the "Golden Age of Islam", where much of the scholarship of that period was by Persians. And subsequently the "Iranian renaissance" which produced some of the greatest works of literature, poetry and philosophy the world has known, including not just the works of poets like Rumi and Hafez (among many others) but regrettably the all too neglected (outside of the Iranian cultural zone; in Iran, it is influence surpasses any other work ever produced) masterpiece of human epic, namely the collection of myths, legends, and actual history as recounted for thousands of years by the Iranian people, transformed into 50,000 couplets of poetry in Ferdowsi's Shahnameh (Book of Kings). If you had been exposed half as much to the Book of Kings as you have been to the myths from another tradition in the scriptures that became the cornerstone of religious beliefs in the West, you would appreciate a lot of history very differently! In a better way too and with more uplifting lessons to boot.
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2019
  15. Mac-7

    Mac-7 Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2011
    Messages:
    86,664
    Likes Received:
    17,636
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I followed the link and found this:

    How is math manipulated to allow inequality and oppression to persist?
    ● Who is doing the oppressing?
    ● Who does the oppression
    protect? Who does this
    oppression harm?
    ● Where is there an opportunity to
    examine systemic oppression?
    ● How can math help us
    understand the impact of economic conditions and systems that contribute to poverty and slave labor?
    ● How does math contribute to how we value natural resource
     
  16. Adfundum

    Adfundum Moderator Staff Member Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2018
    Messages:
    7,683
    Likes Received:
    4,171
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    I've read some of the literature from that period, and I like it very much. All cultures have their pros and cons, but that only becomes a problem when we try to push the idea that "my culture is superior to yours" notion (as you pointed out in your "rant"). It's such a shame that we will claim superiority by limiting our access to other cultures.
     
    Iranian Monitor likes this.
  17. Adfundum

    Adfundum Moderator Staff Member Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2018
    Messages:
    7,683
    Likes Received:
    4,171
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    It's always good to check things out for yourself. So, what do you see in all that?
     
  18. Mac-7

    Mac-7 Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2011
    Messages:
    86,664
    Likes Received:
    17,636
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I see liberal lunacy and minority child abuse
     
  19. SEAL Team V

    SEAL Team V Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2019
    Messages:
    2,749
    Likes Received:
    3,559
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    I'm a Baby Boomer, I have trouble with email.I hope this link is correct
    https://www.bing.com/fd/ls/GLinkPin...ByZXNzaXZlLXVzLWdvdmVybm1lbnQtcmFjaXN0L2FtcC8


    https://www.bing.com/amp/s/www.seattletimes.com/education-lab/new-course-outlines-prompt-conversations-about-identity-race-in-seattle-classrooms-even-in-math/?amp=1


    https://www.theamericanconservative.com/dreher/woke-math-in-seattle/
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2019
  20. SEAL Team V

    SEAL Team V Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2019
    Messages:
    2,749
    Likes Received:
    3,559
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    It was The College Fix on Fox News

    https://www.thecollegefix.com/seattle-schools-continue-to-lead-the-way-in-lunacy/


    DAVE HUBER - ASSISTANT EDITOROCTOBER 5, 2019
    SHARE THIS ARTICLE: The College Fix on Facebook The College Fix on Twitter The College Fix on Youtube Share on Email

    [​IMG]

    Word broke this week that the Seattle Public Schools were at it again: In its seemingly endless quest for “social justice,” the district is considering a framework for “math ethnic studies.”

    It’s just as bad as you figured. As the cliché goes, you really can’t make this crap up.

    The “theme” for the “Origins, Identity, and Agency” section points out that math “is rooted in the ancient histories of people and empires of color” (emphasis in the original), while the “Power and Oppression” and “History of Resistance and Liberation” themes aren’t any better:

    Power and oppression, as defined by ethnic studies, are the ways in which individuals and groups define mathematical knowledge so as to see “Western” mathematics as the only legitimate expression of mathematical identity and intelligence. This definition of legitimacy is then used to disenfranchise people and communities of color. This erases the historical contributions of people and communities of color.

    The history of resistance and liberation, as defined by ethnic studies, is the stories, places, and people who helped liberate people and communities of color using math, engineering, and technology. Access to mathematical knowledge itself is an act of liberation.

    The entire “Power and Oppression” portion of the framework truly is a thing to behold. Its “Essential Questions” section asks “Who holds power in a mathematical classroom?” “Who is Smart? Who is not Smart?” and “Can you recognize and name oppressive mathematical practices in your experience?” And then most appallingly: “Who gets to say if an answer is right?”

    Sadly, this lunacy is just the latest for Seattle schools. The district has a, er, “rich” history of implementing questionable practices.

    For example, an early 2000s Seattle Post-Intelligencer story on the so-called racial “discipline gap” quoted district employees freely making use of racial stereotypes. A school principal said black students “are frequently more out-front with their emotions” (and it’s a good thing, too: “In a way, it’s more honest”), while a black school counselor claimed “We, as a people, are loud.”

    In 2006, the district used the following definition of racism: “The systematic subordination of members of targeted racial groups who have relatively little social power in the United States (Blacks, Latino/as, Native Americans, and Asians), by the members of the agent racial group who have relatively more social power (Whites). The subordination is supported by the actions of individuals, cultural norms and values, and the institutional structures and practices of society.” (The district ended up modifying it after criticism.)

    Three years later, “most high school principals and counselors” supported dropping a C-average requirement for graduation, opting for a minimum D-average. “It’s hard to tell students that they may have passed a class with a D but still can’t graduate,” said a high school counselor. This controversy followed seven years of city high schools not giving students failing grades.

    Seattle’s 2007 Equity and Race Relations director claimed summer break was “institutionally racist.” It “deters students of color from catching up academically,” the director said.

    Also from 2007: During the search for a new superintendent, a Seattle School Board member said that candidates should have a “‘clear understanding of institutionalized oppression’ when it comes to improving grades of African-American students.”

    In 2011, a Seattle elementary school teacher told a teen volunteer who wanted to hand out Easter eggs to third graders that she would have to refer to the eggs as “Spring Spheres.”

    Lastly, the Seattle district has made use of the “Courageous Conversations” program led by Glenn Singleton. At around the same time Singleton spoke to my former district, he also “taught” Seattle teachers his methods on how to deal with the racial achievement gap: “White talk” is “verbal,” “intellectual” and “task-oriented,” while “color commentary” is “emotional” and “personal.” No discussion was permitted about students’ home life (how “courageous”), while white teachers’ (alleged) racism was held culpable for lack of student progress.

    If you’re a Seattle parent and can’t afford private or parochial school, get out now — before it’s too late.
     
  21. SEAL Team V

    SEAL Team V Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2019
    Messages:
    2,749
    Likes Received:
    3,559
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    I guess idiocy has been occurring in Seattle for more then a decade. Summer vacation is racist, are you friggin kidding me?
     
  22. HonestJoe

    HonestJoe Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2010
    Messages:
    14,841
    Likes Received:
    4,815
    Trophy Points:
    113
    It didn't say "Math is racist". We can't discuss whether the curriculum is "OK" unless we discuss what it actually says rather than what is being claimed it says. Note that the linked document isn't the entire curriculum.
     
  23. ARDY

    ARDY Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2015
    Messages:
    8,386
    Likes Received:
    1,704
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Thx for your response

    Let’s start with me agreeing that what you are calling attention is indeed lunacy
    No disagreement there

    but what exactly is going on
    Exactly what concrete has happened
    the district is considering a framework for “math ethnic studies.”

    what does that actually mean?
    What have they actually done other than listening to a wacko presentation?
    Would you be equally upset if they listened to a presentation by anti vaccine people?
    Would you be equally upset if they listened to a presentation of young earth creationists who propose their ideas should be taught in public schools?
    Don’t they have an OBLIGATION to listen to the ideas of the community?
    On what basis would you propose that they refuse to listen to some ideas?

    and again.... I ask you to clarify EXACTLY WHAT THEY HAVE DONE?... other than to listen to some people whom I agree presented wacko ideas? Where is any indication of endorsement of these ideas? Where is a game plan for implementing these ideas? What have they actually DONE, other than listen?
    Is THAT your objection? That they listened?
    Or do you object that there are some people in this country who have wacky ideas? Maybe you find it surprising? Friend, maybe you should visit the conspiracy section of this site to see what other wacko ideas exist? Or perhaps spend some time listening to the ideas propounded on info wars?

    I remember when info wars was deplatformed....an infringement of free speech
    So what do you think?
    Should wacko ideas be suppressed , or not!
    What is your plan for dealing with wacko ideas?
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2019
    Adfundum likes this.
  24. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2017
    Messages:
    27,706
    Likes Received:
    21,105
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Can't quite agree with that. We are, after all, each individuals with our own strengths and weaknesses. Everyone should be taught math. But those who can't accel at it are highly likely to be better at other things than those who can. An effective education system helps students identify and build on their strengths while helping them learn to cope with their weaknesses.

    On the other hand, those who excel at math should not be deprived opportunities as a result of catering to those who don't. The education system must also be able to recognize that some students are inclined to more socially valuable skillsets than others. To deny this is to deny reality.

    This is true:
    education.png
    But so is this:
    bq-5c3a21e24c2b4.jpg
     
    dairyair, Sallyally and Adfundum like this.
  25. Robert E Allen

    Robert E Allen Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2018
    Messages:
    12,041
    Likes Received:
    5,750
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male

    Yes but there are standards every should be able to hit. The old model of teaching that did better thsn whatever the hell we are doing now.
     

Share This Page