Do the British People deserve to have a referendum on absconding from the EU?

... or are they shackled to the out-of-date, ignorance-based one that had been voted upon before they became far more knowledgeable concerning the ramifications?

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Exactly right.

With the Irish it only took two referenda until the desired result was achieved, with both the Nice and Lisbon treaties.

The French had a referendum on the EU constitution in 2005 which did not achieve the desired result, the French government did it anyway.

In short, I think referenda can be a useful propaganda tool when the desired result is achieved (most of the time) and can be effectively sidestepped by continuous referenda until the desired result is achieved, or simply by government fiat if success looks unlikely.

This minimises the main drawback of the process - namely that the people might not make the right choice.

For the Brits I think the continuous referenda option fits best, they wouldn't tolerate Parliament just scrapping Article 50 straight up. I think the best chance to achieve the desired result is to have another, "final" (unless we need another one) referendum where we split the leave vote over aa many options as possible, for instance:

1. Remain in the EU
2. Leave with no deal
3. Leave with the Chequers deal
4. Leave with Johnson's deal
5. Leave with a Norway style deal
6. Leave with a Swiss style deal

This means effectively everyone on the remain side will rally behind 1 while the toxic, subhuman leave crowd will be splintered across 2-6, almost guaranteeing the desired result.

In the rare case 2-6 win we can either have another referendum, or consider more drastic options like remaining by fiat.

 

Newsflash: they already did. People said "Brexit".

 

If they are hidebound by an increasingly archaic referendum and prohibited from expressing the democratic will of the far-better-informed present, then they must submit to the dictates of a callow yesteryear.

 

So, present-day Brits are slaves to the ignorance of bygone days despite now being far more aware of the consequences?

 

Brits themselves do want another referendum

 

I don’t even know what we did to deserve the first one.

I’d question the idea that the British people are more knowledgeable on Brexit. Being bombarded with loads of contradictory information, claims and accusations isn’t the same as being more knowledgeable. I’m not sure anyone knows what the consequences of Brexit are going to be, not least because nobody knows how it will actually happen. A key point that so many people have been trying to mask is that Brexit isn’t a simple switch. The UK leaving the EU is just one moment of a long processes. There is much more to Brexit that will need to happen after than moment but because that involves all sorts of complex and scary questions, it’s being pretty much entirely ignored by everyone.

 

I agree, just make sure you are wishy washy on the finality of the referendum so if we need a third to have the people vote correctly it's not as difficult as getting the second.

 

It was "present-day Brits" that chose to exit the EU, mind you.

 

Whether the British people are more enlightened regarding brexit, they are certainly far more cognizant of the practical difficulties of absconding, as well as of the unknowns they may not have anticipated.

Awareness may not equate with knowledge, but surrendering one's fate to a vote from an era when the populace was less aware is hardly sensible.

 

Those who fear an updated expression of the will of the British people obsess over referenda ad infinitum, but it's the proposed manifestation of democracy that confronts the undeniable exigencies of the present that they really loathe.

 

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How was it "ignorance based?"

 

Do the British People deserve to have a referendum on absconding from the EU?

They had one. The British swamp has prevented it from concluding.

 

You act like the Brexit vote was hundreds of years ago. I know, I know it happened in the dark ages of 2016 in a time before.....um well I am sure before there were things that we have now. The only thing that has really changed is more money has been poured into propaganda. Now that the people have proven that they will not toe the line, big money interests decided they needed to spend real money "correcting" their decision.

 

It's like the UK voted that they want pregnant men! It might be tricky, and technically possible with the science of the future, but it isn't an option right now. However the UK brexit voters demand it right now anyway, practical or not, because that is what they were promised and voted for.

 

There hardly was a majority to speak off.

And with that,... them politicians got no clue how to get that Brexit done.
Do they want a no-deal Brexit, or not. What kind of deal of a Brexit?
They want closed borders between the UK and the EU.
Ireland is part of the EU,... oh wait,... no closed borders between Ireland and North Ireland.
So no closed borders with the EU? What is it?

Them Brits just don't know. It's a freaking mess. Johnson is the 3rd one at the helm giving it a try.
He is lucky he wasn't tossed in jail for removing the parliament like your general dictator.
Is this what the people from the UK voted for?

I wouldn't know why they can't have a vote on:
A: do we want to go on with this mess
B: stay in the EU

 

well, 3 governments, 1 general election with loss of majority and the current government a minority government.
I would say its time for a referendum and GE

 

I had a bet on a horse in the Derby and it lost. So I want the race re-run, and I want the race to be re-run until my horse wins.

 

In time I think Brexit could be a very good thing for the U.K.

 

The anti-Brexiteers outrageously refused an election but they want a re-do-referendum, why didn't they choose the election if they're so sure they will win the re-do-referendum. Truth is if you can't win that election you probably won't win the re-do-referendum either.

 

Let us say you made a decision based upon a certain set of information whose impact to you and the nation was enormous. As you went about enacting or executing on that decision, you received new information that corrected some of the information you used originally to make your first decision. Would a rational person keep going down the same path without reconsidering? I think not.

 

Brexiters think they can leave without fierce checkpoints on 200+ land crossing points in Ireland, a total barbed wire fence, machine gun nests and watchtowers, and landmines.
Leave means leave, it means a border, it does not mean stay joined, and no voter voted for a deal of any kind. The words on the winning part of the ballot paper were 'Leave the European Union', and everybody who voted for that has betrayed the result by not establishing a border in Ireland (or Gibraltar) by now, after three years.
Those who voted remain have done nothing wrong whatsoever, the result is 100% down to the winners to implement and so far they have failed.
Boris Johnson says the UK might be obliged to leave with 'no deal', that does not leave much time to set up the barbed wire, the watchtowers, the landmines, the machine gun nests, and the checkpoints.
If any brexiter thinks leave manifests itself in any other way I challenge them to detail, detail, exactly how it will happen successfully in Ireland.

 

I'd say No, the British people should not be allowed to hold referendums, and that also applies to their opinions. In fact the fewer opinions to come out of Europe, the better. They are, as you say, "shackled to out-of-date ignorance".

 

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The fake claims of the Brexiteers been exposed.

The past three years of impotence by those struggling to exit has been most illuminating, but cannot be allowed go on forever.

Preventing the People from expressing their current far better understanding based upon experience is anti-democratic.

 

If I go on contract to buy a house and the builder presents me with a tree fort, I would appreciate the ability to reconsider.