Turkish troops cross into Syria; Iran launches military drill near Turkish border: reports

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by Thedimon, Oct 9, 2019.

  1. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Well-Known Member

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    You are parroting things you imagine you know. In the process, you are missing out on a lot that you should know.
     
  2. mdrobster

    mdrobster Well-Known Member

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    The violence in that region is of their own doing, blaming others is just irresponsible.
     
  3. Sleep Monster

    Sleep Monster Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    No one can be expected to comprehend gibberish, not even a "stable genius."

    I'll take it as a No on that clarification request. Futility, indeed.
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2019
  4. mdrobster

    mdrobster Well-Known Member

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    Your posts are just anti Obama without any facts. I e., why didn't the Iraqis fill in that void.
     
  5. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Well-Known Member

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    The issue is not about finding "blame". Nor am I going to feel irresponsible or responsible as it relates to any issue relating to violence, as the actual record of which countries have unleashed the most violence is undeniable and clear. In any case, all human history includes violence. Some of that violence relates to power struggles and other issues with the dynamics of each culture and civilization. Some of it is profoundly influenced or is a reaction to issues introduced or brought about by foreign agendas.
     
  6. Nothingness

    Nothingness Newly Registered

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    11,779 km
    Distance from Turkey to Mexico

    10,745 km
    Distance from United States to Syria

    So? While Turkey didn’t interpret what’s happening in America, then why America interprets everywhere? Is America the shadow of God?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 11, 2019
  7. truth and justice

    truth and justice Well-Known Member

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    Mosul had become a lawless city way before 2011 under the control of Daesh. I know people who left Mosul and went to live in Duhok due to the city being taken over. Whether you call them ISIS, Daesh or insurgents does not change who they are
     
  8. truth and justice

    truth and justice Well-Known Member

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    You're missing my point. Vman has taken the actions of ISIS or the Taliban as if that is being carried out by the whole Muslim population. So if that is valid, then it is just as valid to say that US soldiers raped Vietnamese women (and little boys), shot civilians, cut off fingers, carried out genocide of villages, kidnapped little girls for raping later, shot babies in cold blood, murdered all in villages because they are "working for the enemy" etc
     
  9. Fred C Dobbs

    Fred C Dobbs Well-Known Member Past Donor

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  10. Fred C Dobbs

    Fred C Dobbs Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Many of us are in the West so the term would be appropriate. Why use foreign terms?
     
  11. Fred C Dobbs

    Fred C Dobbs Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    And if there is a genocide it would be those who committed the genocide who should be blamed.
     
  12. Josh77

    Josh77 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Fill it with what? Do you have any idea how incompetent the Iraqi military was? It was like babysitting every time we did a joint mission with them. Constantly had to tell them to get off their asses, put their helmets back on, stop taking so many damn breaks to drink chai. ISIS was far more motivated than the Iraqi military, which is why Iraq got its asses handed to them so many times around Mosul. You sound like you are just parroting pro Obama rhetoric, leftist drivel. We withdrew before we should have, a vacuum was formed, and ISIS had the most motivated force in the region to fill the vacuum.
     
  13. Josh77

    Josh77 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    BS, I spent 2 years there, 2003-2004, and 2009. By 2009 there was plenty of law in place. Yes there were insurgent attacks, but overall the city ran fairly smoothly. "Daesh" certainly did not have any control there. Where we found insurgents, we crushed them.
     
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  14. ButterBalls

    ButterBalls Well-Known Member

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    Well that's the best thing really! I'm not in the habit of explaining myself for the simply fact that I have no metric to measure comprehension levels via anonymous returns geared more towards critiquing.. I do understand your point and not disputing your difficulty with my post. BUT, I don't always UNDERSTAND posts I read here but I always seem to figure them out, even the ones from posters whose English is a second language!

    Sometimes one must abandon their expert comprehension skills as you certainly display and lower themselves to a level that allows them understand people with lesser communication skill..

    Sorry I couldn't make you happy, really I am!
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2019
  15. DavidMK

    DavidMK Well-Known Member

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    If by centuries you mean about 8 decades, sure. The British and French ****ed things up, the region was doing better than Europe (especially in terms of sectarian violence) prior.
     
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  16. mdrobster

    mdrobster Well-Known Member

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    Some of it is profoundly influenced or is a reaction to issues introduced or brought about by foreign agendas.
    No it is of there own doing. The violence that permeates the region is because of themselves. You claim to not assign blame, but that's just what your last sentence does. To boot, is that region so easily programmed by outside influence :)
     
  17. mdrobster

    mdrobster Well-Known Member

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  18. mdrobster

    mdrobster Well-Known Member

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    So if the Iraq army was so incompetent, why did Bush Jr sign the treaty to remove US troops.
     
  19. US Conservative

    US Conservative Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The sectarian violence there goes back far longer.

    Its not a problem the US is going to solve, and so we should avoid foreign entanglements.

    If we must fight-go in with clearly defined goals, kick a-s, and pull out.
     
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  20. Mircea

    Mircea Well-Known Member

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    So, you can slaughter for 4,000+ years so long as your culture is better.

    Got it.
     
  21. DavidMK

    DavidMK Well-Known Member

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    Started in the 30s.
     
  22. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Well-Known Member

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    By 2009, the US had already joined hand-in-hand with the base of jihadist and ex Baathist forces behind the Sunni insurgency, created, trained, and armed a force of 100,000 (Sons of Iraq) from its ranks, while also pretending to be working with the Iraqi military and government which these Sunni forces were ideologically committed to destroying! The 'surge' was a success because the monster being created was no longer meant to fight US forces, but others (pro Iran militia and parties and other institutions that were the foundation of the Iraqi government, with the Iraqi military (as you mentioned yourself) an unmotivated mercenary force that was there to just collect their paychecks!

    Below is the story about the rise of ISIS.

    1- Between 2004-2006, several Iraqi elections saw the "US list" lose to the "Iranian list". As a result, all sorts of voices blamed the Bush administration's invasion of Iraq and subsequent policies for "handing Iraq to Iran.
    2- After the 2006 war between Israel and Hezbollah, alarm bells began ringing about a "Shia Crescent" led by Iran stretching from Iran through Iraq, through Syria, through Lebanon and to the Mediterranean. Both Sunni Arab states and Israel were behind much of the alarmist talk, which combined some facts with propaganda.
    3- As a result, the Bush administration was persuaded to undergo a "Redirection" (a term from Seymour Hersh's article in the New Yorker at the time) of its foreign policy with an emphasis on fighting Iran everywhere "Iranian influence" was supposedly present. That meant particularly in Lebanon (Hezbollah), Iraq ('pro Iran' shia parties and miitia), Syria (Bashar Assad's regime), and ultimately in Iran itself.
    4- The redirection was sold publicly as 'the surge'. Publicly, the surge was about the US working with Sunni tribal leaders to fight Al Queda in Iraq. In reality, it was mostly about the US -- through Sunni Arab conduits and intermediaries (including Iraqi tribal leaders with lots of Saudi money to throw around) -- bribing and inducing many of the former Al Queda forces (excepting their best known figures) to join a crusade against Iran/Shia and support a new Sunni force to be commanded by ex-Baathist Sunni officers. This force, of 100,000 men fully equipped and trained by the US, was known as the "Sons of Iraq".
    5- Naturally, with much of the force behind the 'Sunni insurgency' which had previously fought the US now co-opted by the Americans, attacks by these forces against American targets reduced substantially. The 'surge' was, therefore, presented as a success.
    6- In the meantime, however, these forces and their hatred was being directed towards a group they had hated all along: the Shia and Iran. Sunni politicians in Iraq, Arab Sunni tribal leaders, ex Baathist officers, Sunni Jihadists, and the Sons of Iraq -- all awash with Saudi and American money, equipment and training -- frightened America's own hand-picked Iraqi PM, Al-Maliki, who naturally saw these forces a danger to his government. Al Maliki, therefore, switched sides and came to rely on Iran to counterbalance these forces.
    7- With Maliki switching sides, a cornerstone of Iranian policy - namely removal of US troops in Iraq -- became a demand of the Iraqi government in negotiating SOFA. And so did disbanding the "Sons of Iraq".
    8- SOFA was negotiated by the Bush administration but implemented by the Obama administration, which kept a campaign promise to take US troops out of Iraq. With the Americans gone, and the Sons of Iraq disbanded, the same forces and the same money, training and equipment, found a new patron to fight the Shia and Iran (and, to a lesser extent, the Americans which had 'betrayed them'). That force became the Islamic State in Iraq and, once the other prong of the plans to destabilize and plunge Assad into civil war because of his ties to Iran went into full motion, this force then became ISIS (Islamic State of Iraq and Syria).
    9- During the first few years of the "Syrian civil war", all these jihadist elements (including those who would be part of ISIS) were fully backed by the different foreign states trying to unseat Assad, including the US, Saudi Arabia, Turkey, Qatar and even the EU. But in fairness, America and the EU dealt directly mostly with other elements in the anti-Assad coalition -- elements which had no real power on the ground but were more presentable as the 'public face' of the rebels fighting Assad to bring "democracy" to Syria (with such havens of democracy in the region as Saudi Arabia on their side:). Eventually, as ISIS monstrosity became too much for anyone to handle, fighting the group became also part of the agenda in Syria and Iraq. (Even then, however, the Israelis were publicly saying they preferred ISIS to Iran on their borders).
     
  23. US Conservative

    US Conservative Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Myopic.

    There has been religious and military strife there far longer, being located at a crossroads between europe and the middle east. Between the ottoman empire and the Arabian peninsula. Conquered by the Romans long ago (many syrians still have blonde hair and green eyes), I could go on.
     
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  24. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Well-Known Member

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    When I describe things, blame gets assigned where it falls. But for me it is not about "finding" blame as your judgment is only relevant if it is informed. And even then, no more relevant than any other informed judgment from outside and less relevant than even the most uninformed judgments within.

    As for the region being easily "programmed", while that is certainly not a term I would use (influenced being a lot more accurate), the influence is itself the product of several factors. One is, indeed, the fact that the enemies in the region are more powerful, more resourceful, and represent a more advanced civilization at this time and place in history. Another is that they have insiders working with them, in the case of ISIS, Wahhabi ideology and funding from Saudi Arabia which has spent billions to develop the underpinnings of this ideology to counter the political Islam that emerged from the heels of the Iranian revolution. So I wouldn't necessarily call it "easy". Finally, many of the 'beliefs' in the West are directly influenced by beliefs and ideas developed outside, including the Middle East. Human interaction, in other words, has that aspect to it regardless.
     
  25. vman12

    vman12 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    That doesn't even make sense.
     

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