The Erdoğan/Trump Slaughter Has Begun

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Natty Bumpo, Oct 10, 2019.

  1. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2017
    Messages:
    27,696
    Likes Received:
    21,095
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    This.

    The Middle East is a violent, tribal place. It doesnt matter what we do there, they'll just wait for us to leave and resume business as usual: killing eachother over cultural and religious differences.

    We can either funnel our economy and our children into policing the entire region with our military, or we can accept that there will be regular war there. No third option.

    Hell, a lot of the problems there can be traced to political meddling by The West going back a century. Maybe its time we leave them to figure there **** out themselves, brutal as it will be.
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2019
  2. US Conservative

    US Conservative Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    May 19, 2015
    Messages:
    66,099
    Likes Received:
    68,212
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Not the same.
     
  3. Marine1

    Marine1 Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2011
    Messages:
    31,883
    Likes Received:
    3,624
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    If you remember pulling out of Syria was part of Trump's promise when he was running for President. When Obama put them in there, they were only suppose to be there for a few months. It's been over 5 years now. The fighting between the Kurds and Turkey has been going on for decades and they will continue to go on for decades more. The Kurds were given a piece of land to live on, but over the years they have spread out over large sections of Turkey and Syria. During that time they have also taken over some vital oil fields that I am sure Turkey wants back, which is why there has been so much fighting between them. Turkey wasn't happy Obama put a force in there but Obama made a deal with Turkey he would not arm the Kurds and would not have our Allies arm them and he kept that promise for years till ISIS began slaughtering the Kurds and France broke with Obama and did send arms to them. The Kurds begged Obama for arms to defend themselves from ISIS and Obama finally gave in, but only months before he left office, probably because France was already doing it and the Kurds were showing great fighting ability against them. But the war is mostly over and I'm sure Turkey wants to continue to drive the Kurds from their land and back on the land giving them. I don't think they want to destroy them, just get them off their land. I am sure the big deal is they want their oil fields back. I think Trump made a deal with Turkey that he wouldn't interfere as long as Turkey doesn't try and wipe the Kurds out. They have more arms now to fight Turkey than they had before. We can't keep troops there for ever and also put our troops at risk. They probably will be fighting for the next 50-100 years.


    1. Expert: Obama Fails Kurds, Who Are 'Begging for Arms ...
      https://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/Obama-Kurds-ISIS-Iraq/2014/09/30/id/597690
      Sep 30, 2014 · President Barack Obama has pledged to protect and arm Syrians and Iraqis facing terrorist attacks by the Islamic State (ISIS) but has so far failed to protect Kurds on the Turkish border of Syria, said Robert Zubrin, a senior fellow with the Center for Security Policy



    2. Obama refuses to provide the Kurds weapons to defend ...
      https://reform4syria.org/obama-give-the-kurds-weapons-to-defend-themselves
      Oct 03, 2014 · As Barack Obama refused to arm the Free Syrian Army for over three years and refused to arm the Ukrainian Government to defend themselves from the Assad and the Putin terrors, now comes to our attention that Obama is refusing to provide the Kurds with weapons even as ISIL besieges the town of Kobani (Also called Ayn al-Arab).
     
    Seth Bullock and US Conservative like this.
  4. Marine1

    Marine1 Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2011
    Messages:
    31,883
    Likes Received:
    3,624
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Syria's Kurds and the Struggle for Oil | The National Interest
    nationalinterest.org/commentary/syrias-kurds-the...
    Technically, the majority of oil fields in northern Syria are in Kurdish hands. The question that remains unclear to many, including Kurds, is whether Syrian Kurds can run these rich fields by...
     
    US Conservative likes this.
  5. Marine1

    Marine1 Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2011
    Messages:
    31,883
    Likes Received:
    3,624
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    A little wrong about Turkish oil. Here is the problem there

    WHAT DOES TURKEY WANT? Turkey has two main goals in northeast Syria: to drive the Kurdish YPG militia which it deems a security threat away from its border, and to create a space inside Syria where 2 million Syria refugees currently hosted in Turkey can be settled. It had been pushing the United States to jointly establish a "safe zone" extending 20 miles (32 km) into Syrian territory, but repeatedly warned it could take unilateral military action after accusing Washington of dragging its feet. President Tayyip Erdogan has recently talked about pushing even deeper into Syria, beyond the proposed "safe zone" region to the cities of Raqqa and Deir al-Zor, in order to allow still more refugees to return to Syria.

    Pictured: Kurdish fighters from the People's Protection Units (YPG) take part in a military parade as they celebrate victory over the Islamic State, in Qamishli, Syria, on March 28, 2019.
     
  6. Seth Bullock

    Seth Bullock Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2015
    Messages:
    13,625
    Likes Received:
    11,934
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    These are missile defense experts, not combat troops standing between two opposing forces. Apples and oranges.
     
  7. redeemer216

    redeemer216 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2013
    Messages:
    1,598
    Likes Received:
    421
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Semantics, what do missiles do? Stand between two opposing forces.
     
  8. Seth Bullock

    Seth Bullock Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2015
    Messages:
    13,625
    Likes Received:
    11,934
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    That mission is complete. That mission. Not every mission everywhere. That mission.

    Where the f*ck is it written that U.S. may never complete a mission and go home?
     
  9. redeemer216

    redeemer216 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2013
    Messages:
    1,598
    Likes Received:
    421
    Trophy Points:
    83
    WE DIDN'T GO HOME. We are still in Syria.

    If you mean the mission to allow Turkey to attack friendlies. Sure, THAT mission was completed. Otherwise stop with the nonsense.
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2019
  10. Daniel Light

    Daniel Light Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2015
    Messages:
    31,455
    Likes Received:
    34,888
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Except they didn’t “go home”. They were just moved out of the way so that women and children could be killed or forced from their homes and all in the name of the Trump Towers in Istanbul profit margins.
     
    Margot2 likes this.
  11. Margot2

    Margot2 Banned

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2013
    Messages:
    73,644
    Likes Received:
    13,766
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Syria has very little oil and its very poor quality.. Their production peaked about 1995 at 350,000 bpd.. less than 40,000 bpd by 2011.. Not enough to meet domestic needs.
     
  12. Margot2

    Margot2 Banned

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2013
    Messages:
    73,644
    Likes Received:
    13,766
    Trophy Points:
    113
    [​IMG]

    Everybody suffers except Assad.
     
  13. truth and justice

    truth and justice Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2011
    Messages:
    25,729
    Likes Received:
    8,771
    Trophy Points:
    113
    An increase of 14000 troops in Saudi Arabia since May, 4000 sent in the last month!

    So much for bringing the troops home!
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2019
    redeemer216 likes this.
  14. Natty Bumpo

    Natty Bumpo Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2012
    Messages:
    41,208
    Likes Received:
    14,702
    Trophy Points:
    113
    You can be upset that the minimal US military presence has insured the safety of tens of thousands of displaced children, women and men following the success of the Syrian Democratic Front against Islamic State, and advocate that Trump precipitously cut and run, opening the way for Erdogan to inflict carnage upon them, but it is repugnant to decent Americans, regardless of their political affiliation.
    Fake Don, 2018: “We will be focused on the big picture, knowing we can always go back & BLAST!”

    Fake Don's assurance that the US can always go back and BLAST is hardly a commitment to disengagement.

    Fake Don "told of his intentions publicly" to build his "big, beautiful wall" that Mexico would pay for, "immediately" repeal 'ObamaCare' and replace it with "something terrific!" that covers "everybody!" at "less cost!", release his tax returns, re-build the nation's crumbling infrastructure, balance the national debt, etc., etc., etc.

    The phony claim that Fake Don's sudden retreat and abandonment of US allies did not come as a shock and have devastating consequences is pathetic. Pretending that his sudden treachery should have been expected by others in his regime, by other nations allied with the US, and by his victims in Syria is absurd.

    Perhaps they had been listening to the many times Fake Don vowed to withdraw US forces from Afghanistan.
    Your farcical pretense that Fake Don's word is a guarantee of what he will do is immensely jocund, as mirthful as the goofball claim that Fake Don is disengaging from the Middle East on the day he commits 2,000 more US troops to Saudi Arabia.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2019
  15. Lesh

    Lesh Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2015
    Messages:
    42,206
    Likes Received:
    14,119
    Trophy Points:
    113
    The "we" in that sentence is us AND the Kurds who Trump just threw under the bus.

    It was our air power and their foot soldiers that took the land area away from ISIS. It is Kurds who are maintaining prisons holding 10,000 ISIS fighters...for now.
     
  16. Natty Bumpo

    Natty Bumpo Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2012
    Messages:
    41,208
    Likes Received:
    14,702
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Some prefer to swallow Fake Don's blatant lie:

    Screen Shot 2019-10-12 at 8.22.04 AM.png
    "We don't have any soldiers there because we left,
    we won, we left, take a victory United States!"

    October 10, 2019

    https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/465346-trump-defends-syria-move-at-rally


    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
    redeemer216 likes this.
  17. Injeun

    Injeun Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2012
    Messages:
    12,831
    Likes Received:
    5,961
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Under the bus? The Kurds and Turks have been at war for thirty five years. Kurds are considered terrorists in Turkey because they blow up innocent civilians and Police. America didn't put the Kurds in that situation. The Kurds placed themselves in it. They should cut a deal with Turkey. If they don't want to cut a deal with Turkey, then that's their choice.....isn't it?
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2019
  18. Empress

    Empress Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2014
    Messages:
    3,142
    Likes Received:
    913
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    The PKK is not only not a US ally, it's been on the US government's terrorist organization list since 1997. They're a violent Marxist group that also smuggles drugs. How is not going along with them "throwing the Kurds under the bus"?
     
  19. Empress

    Empress Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2014
    Messages:
    3,142
    Likes Received:
    913
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    I'm wondering why you think the President is obligated to tell you where and when we have troops. Do you have any concept of covert ops?
     
  20. Natty Bumpo

    Natty Bumpo Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2012
    Messages:
    41,208
    Likes Received:
    14,702
    Trophy Points:
    113
    The Kurdish-led Syrian Democratic Front has been a loyal US ally, bearing the high cost of fighting Islamic State terrorists in Syria.

    "Over four years, the SDF ... sustained nearly 11,000 casualties.
    By comparison, six U.S. service members, as well as
    two civilians, have been killed in the anti-ISIS campaign."


    Gen. Joseph Votel, Commander of U.S. forces in the Middle East
    Fake Don's bending over for the repressive Turkish dictator is a betrayal of American values that will result in the death of innocents, until now protected by the SDF, and the resurgence of IS terrorists, until now incarcerated by the SDF.
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2019
  21. Margot2

    Margot2 Banned

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2013
    Messages:
    73,644
    Likes Received:
    13,766
    Trophy Points:
    113
    The Kurds were nomads and have also lived in settled villages all over the ME and Russia for over 2000 years. You'd know that if you understood the symbiotic necessity between nomads and their townie cousins.

    What oil fields are you talking about?

    Turkey's biggest oil field in Bati Raman.. Syria have very little oil and is very poor quality. Their production peaked in 1995. Nobody is fretting over Syria oil. 35,000 bpd isn't even enough to meet domestic needs.
     
  22. Natty Bumpo

    Natty Bumpo Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2012
    Messages:
    41,208
    Likes Received:
    14,702
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Feeble attempts to justify Fake Don's cutting and running by his fanatical cult are failing miserably.

    His treachery is being denounced by patriotic Americans - Republicans, Democrats, and Independents - as well as by nations that formerly could trust the US:

     
  23. Margot2

    Margot2 Banned

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2013
    Messages:
    73,644
    Likes Received:
    13,766
    Trophy Points:
    113
    1. State of the Union: Trump is taking credit for defeating ...
      https://www.vox.com/world/2018/1/30/16945312/state-of-the-union-2018-isis
      “Whatever successes the Trump administration is claiming against ISIS are actually a product of the Obama administration’s approach,” says Jennifer Cafarella, the senior intelligence planner at the Institute for the Study of War. To be fair, Trump’s approach wasn’t 100 percent identical to Obama’s.

    2. Did Trump Really Beat ISIS? Here Are the Facts
      https://www.dailysignal.com/2018/01/31/did-trump-really-beat-isis
      Jan 31, 2018 · Here Are the Facts. However, Trump’s surprise victory gave him the chance to back up his claim. Many were openly skeptical he could do it. But one year into the Trump administration, the facts on the ground—in Syria and Iraq—have changed dramatically. The Islamic State, also known as ISIS, lost control of Mosul,...
     
  24. Margot2

    Margot2 Banned

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2013
    Messages:
    73,644
    Likes Received:
    13,766
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Even the Evangelicals are making noise about Trump abandoning the Kurds.
     
  25. Natty Bumpo

    Natty Bumpo Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2012
    Messages:
    41,208
    Likes Received:
    14,702
    Trophy Points:
    113

Share This Page