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The Rich Really Do Pay Higher Taxes Than You

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Bluesguy, Oct 10, 2019.

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  1. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    I don't know who you are talking about nor care. If you believe you can refute the numbers I posted then do so, if not they remain unrefuted.
     
    Bluesguy, Oct 11, 2019
    #26
  2. edthecynic

    edthecynic Well-Known Member

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    Yes you do!
    I refuted the numbers, which is why you deleted that part of my post.
    Thank you for subconsciously proving I'm right.
     
    edthecynic, Oct 11, 2019
    #27
  3. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    no they do not, most of their income comes from investment income, if you count all income, the rich pay way less per dollar than the middle class does

    Romney and Trump already proved this - Trump says it makes the rich smart not paying hardly any taxes and the middle class are stupid for not being rich, they should just borrow a few million from mom and dad.. right? how stupid of the middle class not to think of that, it worked for Romey and Trump
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2019
    FreshAir, Oct 12, 2019
    #28
  4. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    The experts blame it on drugs, mental illness and overpriced housing. Take your pick. There are jobs begging for people to fill them. It certainly isn't about that.
     
    fmw, Oct 12, 2019
    #29
  5. garyd

    garyd Well-Known Member

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    That was corporate not individual..
     
    garyd, Oct 12, 2019
    #30
  6. garyd

    garyd Well-Known Member

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    The number of Homeless have ballooned because California is a sanctuary state with the most expensive housing in the country, and policies that prevent building multifamily dwellings.
     
    garyd, Oct 12, 2019
    #31
  7. RodB

    RodB Well-Known Member Donor

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    If the tax law says someone does not owe taxes on this and that -- say a self-employed with an operating loss -- that is not a loophole, that is the law. "Loopholes" are an imaginary straw man.
     
    RodB, Oct 12, 2019
    #32
  8. garyd

    garyd Well-Known Member

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    Except you really didn't. In fact the percentage paid on capital gains is currently higher than what most Americans pay as a percentage after deductions.
     
    garyd, Oct 12, 2019
    #33
    Bluesguy likes this.
  9. RodB

    RodB Well-Known Member Donor

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    The left have lots of beliefs firmly planted in the clouds.

    ... and after they amend the constitution.
     
    RodB, Oct 12, 2019
    #34
  10. KAMALAYKA

    KAMALAYKA Banned

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    There are so, so many ways to play the system, and the GOP always fights to prevent these loopholes from being closed.

    Equity swaps. Tax havens. Borrowing from an investment bank using the shares as collateral after purchasing options in order to avoid the capital gains tax. Shell companies. Shell trust funds. Using a GRAT trust fund to dodge estate taxes. Borrowing against a life insurance policy. Putting mortgages on your current properties until the rental income equals your expenses.

    And that's only the beginning.
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2019
    KAMALAYKA, Oct 12, 2019
    #35
    edthecynic likes this.
  11. edthecynic

    edthecynic Well-Known Member

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    First of all, any and all unrealized Cap Gains are TAX FREE and growing TAX FREE year after year. They were left out of your phony numbers.
    And there are "deductions" available to businesses and tycoons that the average WAGE EARNER can never take advantage of. In reality, the phony numbers generated by think tanks financed by the rich only apply to WAGE EARNERS.
     
    edthecynic, Oct 12, 2019
    #36
  12. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    The numbers are counting all income. The median tad rate doesn't come close to the long term capgains rate the higher earners pay plus they vast majority also make huge salaries on which theyvpay even higher tax rates.
     
    Bluesguy, Oct 12, 2019
    #37
  13. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    Your post refuted nothing. Post the data you claim refutes it.
     
    Bluesguy, Oct 12, 2019
    #38
  14. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    Well DUH, how do you tax a capital gain until it is relaized? It is not income until it is realized.
     
    Bluesguy, Oct 12, 2019
    #39
  15. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    Mortgage deductions, childcare credit deductions, medical deductions all those "loopholes".
     
    Bluesguy, Oct 12, 2019
    #40
  16. edthecynic

    edthecynic Well-Known Member

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    But it IS a capital gain whether it is realized or not. If your portfolio gained a billion dollars, you are a billion dollars wealthier whether you realize the gain or not. It is called a CAPITAL GAINS tax not a Capital INCOME tax.
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2019
    edthecynic, Oct 12, 2019
    #41
  17. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    It is not income until it is realized and only if there is a profit in the sale. A tax on Capital Gains INCOME.
    And that is counted in the data given so please address it. If the system is not progressive enough now what would be?
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2019
    Bluesguy, Oct 12, 2019
    #42
  18. RodB

    RodB Well-Known Member Donor

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    The problems you cite are people following the tax laws. How do you define a loophole? A tax law that you don't like?? I don't like your standard deduction or Schedule A loophole.
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2019
    RodB, Oct 12, 2019
    #43
  19. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    How about that childcare loophole people are using to avoid paying taxes?
     
    Bluesguy, Oct 12, 2019
    #44
  20. RodB

    RodB Well-Known Member Donor

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    That's a good point though it is off the argument which is what is a loophole. Childcare credits are not loopholes; they are explicit and purposeful tax law.
     
    RodB, Oct 12, 2019
    #45
  21. dairyair

    dairyair Well-Known Member

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    dairyair, Oct 12, 2019
    #46
  22. dairyair

    dairyair Well-Known Member

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    dairyair, Oct 12, 2019
    #47
  23. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    fake news, trying to compare the bottom 20% to the top 20% is not a fair comparison at all
     
    FreshAir, Oct 12, 2019
    #48
  24. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    tax per dollar earned is what we go by, not total dollars

    that is like saying I paid more sales tax cause I spent more in a store, no, I just spent more dollars

    same with earning more dollars... you should not get a discount cause you earned more dollars - heck just be happy you earned more dollars
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2019
    FreshAir, Oct 12, 2019
    #49
  25. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    Just because you don't like the results and the facts and you got stumped answering the basic question if the distribution of taxes paid is not progressive enough now what would be does not make it "fake news". If you cannot accept data about the progressivity then you have nothing to say about and whether we should raise taxes on the higher earners and if they are paying their fair share of taxes. We can certainly compare all income groups as to taxes paid and a percent of total taxes, the GOVERNMENT does it and publishes numbers.
     
    Bluesguy, Oct 12, 2019
    #50
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