Turkish troops cross into Syria; Iran launches military drill near Turkish border: reports

Forgive me for going off-topic, but in your opinion (which has always been valuable), is the KSA going to just let Iran and their stooges get away with those horrific series of attacks on the ARAMCO installations? Everyone I know of, whether liberal or conservative, in this country or in Europe, and in the KSA, does seem to believe that Iran authorized and/or carried out these attacks through its minions.

Another question I have which is closer to the 'theater' of Syria... is Iran going to participate in the extermination of the Kurdish people in Syria, along with Turkey, or, do you think that Iran will be satisfied with exterminating the Kurds who live in northern Iraq...? Thank you.

 

Yeah.. The Iranians did the attack on the Abqaiq refineries. I don't think the Saudis will retaliate.. They are not keen to destroy stuff in Iran or anywhere else. They have a different mindset about investing and progress.

Iraq lies between Syria and Iran..



I don't know what Iran will do about the Kurds... I'd say no, but they are crazy into end times crap and they hate Sunnis.

The immediate problem is that there are tens of thousands of Christian Syrians in the north where Turkey is bombing..

Trump has screwed up royally and the whole world is watching.

 

Thanks for the laugh. Seriously!

 

Do you think the Iranians will attack the Kurds?

 

OK, 'drop the other shoe' and please tell us what you are talking about.... What Margot said seemed to make sense to me....

Oh, so that I don't seem as vague as you are, I'll be candid enough to say that if a joint force of the United States and the KSA initiated a series of devastating air attacks on ALL Iranian military facilities tomorrow, I'd be overjoyed! Those power-mad, certifiably insane Islamo-priests who rule the theocracy in Iran have been BEGGING for it since 1979, and by now it is WAY OVERDUE....

. "Sure, I'll be happy to help those guys get to their Islamo-heaven... let's GO!"

 

Honestly, the truth about these issues is buried under so much nonsense and falsehoods, that even if believed telling that truth to you would make a difference (it wouldn't, as you would reject it with a label), it would take a message ten times longer than even my typical messages in this forum (which are pretty long anyway and probably lose audiences who like their views to come in bumper sticker format).

I will put this in as simple terms as I can:
1- The US has no military option against Iran, not unless it wants to destroy the global economy and bring such chaos and mayhem to the region whose ramifications and outcome is hard for anyone to predict. By extension, the Saudis don't even have anything that counts in such a war.
2- The larger Iranian world, to include modern-day Iran, is indeed, in many ways the actual home of -- not the fictional enemy you are fighting, and being associated with it (Islam) -- but the culture and civilization in both its non-Islamic form (Iranian historiography and mythology based on the Shahnameh or Book of Kings) as well as Islamic form (Shia Islam is above all about rejecting the legitimacy of the rule of the Islamic caliphates that captured the Persian empire as well as large parts of what were the Byzantine empire), that has rejected all foreign subjugation, whether "Arab/Islamic" or Western.
3- The West has tried to subdue Iran for over 2,500 years! It subdued it once, under Alexander, who quickly discovered the mingling to the two cultures and civilizations was the best route, only to be rejected by chauvinists in his camp, and in 800 years of warfare between Iran and Rome and then subsequently in wars between Christendom and Islam (not the Arabian Islam that is then lumped with the Persianate one, whether Sunni or Shia), up to the modern era where finally 'westernization' (reflecting the desire of people to be associated with the more 'advanced' civilization, which by the 19th and 20th century was indeed western civilization, combined with neo-imperialism, came close to subduing Iran and its spirit. The Iranian revolution, despite being covered by a lot that is non-Iranian as well, was ultimately a rejection of that subjugation. Its final outcome, facing off against the world's superpower armed with nukes, and fighting its dominant lobbying class in Israel, is yet to be told. Its prospects without outside intervention, however, would be quite promising.
4- From a geopolitical standpoint, Iran is right now stuck between the proverbial rock and a hard place. We are surrounded by enemies and franemies on all sides. We are in no position to take a clear side on what is going on, except to support the government of Bashar Assad rhetorically and its stated objective to maintain the territorial integrity of Syria and bring it all under Syrian government control. In this quest, Iran was against US troops in Syria, against foreign agents masquerading under whatever title or slogan, against any attempts by regional powers (whether Turks, Saudis, or Israelis) or outside powers (whether Americans, Europeans or Russians) to dominate Syria. But being against all these powers trying to dominate Syria doesn't give us the chance to fight them all at once! Among them, we like to keep good relations with Turkey, while our real ally remains Assad despite the Russians pretty much taking over his country. But we also like the real Kurds -- not the foreign agents using that title. After all, the Kurds, which became the tool of Zionists trying to cause internal rifts and divisions within their enemy states, are an Iranian people. Except for those among them that are actually paid agents of foreign powers, and are engaged in terrorism on their behalf, we have nothing but well wishes for them.

 

Trump bum kissers are struggling mightily to explain how their messiah's precipitously cutting and running, withdrawing the minimal number of US troops who were deployed, at low risk, in support of the Syrian Democratic Forces (while serving as an effective deterrent to a brutal dictator's invasion, decimation and displacement of tens of thousands of refugees, many of them Christians) is anything other than disastrous for US interests, as his treachery admirably serves the interests of Islamic State, Iran and Russia,

"Can I pick 'em, or can I pick 'em?".........​

 

The Erdoğan/Trump slaughter of democratic forces in northern Syria unfolds as expected:

If there has been one group more fanatical about the degenerate who brays that his celebrity licenses him to grab women by their private parts, and had a 'fixer' to pay hush money to bimbos with whom he rutted behind the backs of trophy wives, more even than the neo-nazis and white supremacists who hail him as their "God Emperor!" and "Glorious Leader!", it is his white evangelicals.

Some of his adoration may be waning with Fake Don's facilitating the massacre of Christians.

wee-handed germophobe​

 

You are to be commended for your very considerate, well thought-out post, which does, indeed, illuminate areas of the current situation involving all of the countries in the area (an enormous undertaking). Frankly, I lack the comprehensive, labyrinthine knowledge that you and @Margot2 have in apparent abundance; furthermore, I readily admit that mine is a partisan, "American" viewpoint -- devoid of any sympathy for violent, intolerant, tyrannical Islam, whether that of Sunni, Shi'a, or any of the minor factions within it. I'll spare you the wearisome process of reading what I think should be done with any religion that commands conversion of "infidels", along with the inevitable, concomitant infliction of torture and murder for non-compliance. Suffice to say, then, that truly, there is NO place, today, in the 21st-century for any such "religion". Other major religions ceased such behaviors many hundreds of years ago -- only Islam practices these things today.

I have no quarrel with the Iranian people, and among the few I have known personally, one was a very intelligent, well-educated co-worker of mine at a large university, and, one of whom was my dentist! I'm not such a "knuckle-dragger" that I imagine all Iranians are bug-eyed, Islamo-zealots who want to go charging around the world, scimitars in hand, praying for the arrival of an apocalyptic "Hidden Imam", while killing all the "infidels" -- but some are, and unfortunately those appear to be the very ones who hold power in Tehran!

Back on topic, mostly -- my naivete is obvious. Nevertheless, I have understood that today's Turkey is relatively "secular" (at least they don't burn people alive, decapitate them, or throw them off roof tops, and run them out of their homes, unless they rebel against Führer Erdogan). But Iran...? My memories of what 'peaceful Islam' brought into Iran in 1979 are still quite vivid, and the Islamo-priest rulers in Tehran give no one any reason to think that they have changed, even though the Iranian people have in many aspects evolved beyond the narrow confines of a hateful, tyrannical religion....

Trapped in-between Turkey and Iran, and trying even to exist next to the corrupt, Iranian-dominated 'government' in Baghdad, I feel sympathy and pity for the poor Kurds. May God help them, and the scattering of Christians up there, too. It appears that no one else will.... Ultimately, I cannot help but believe that one man will decide whether the Kurds live, or die....

. The only "adult-in-the-room"... and now, Russia is the only power that really matters in the Middle East.

 

Well, the PKK Kurds are communists so Putin might have a soft spot for them, but I don't expect anyone to actually go to war with Turkey to save Kurds.

 

The PKK Kurds (among others) were battlefield allies of ours, fighting and dying alongside us against ISIS, regardless of their communistic economic philosophy....

Hell, we allied ourselves with the SOVIET UNION (the throbbing epicenter of all Communism) in order to fight Nazi Germany! Think about it, really. You don't have to be in lock-step with the economic viewpoint of an ally who is willing to give his LIFE to fight alongside you....

 

Thanks for proving me wrong and at least considering the points I was trying to make.

The issues are more complicated than the simplified propaganda images of the various actors in the region, as presented to Americans and westerners (and, by extension, anyone under that influence) more generally. Iran itself is practically nothing like the propaganda image of it: The image contained seeds of truth in the earlier years after the revolution, but today and for the past couple of decades in particular, the image you have (even in its modified form) is not of the real Iran. Except for the fact that Iran's regime remains ideologically committed to fighting off US/Israeli hegemony, and is still waging a half-hearted, mostly rhetorical, losing battle to the forces of westernization (which itself doesn't mean the latter is good and the former is evil, as the true answer for Iran isn't found in either side), much of the rest you read about Iran is propaganda by those who are trying to subjugate it with that propaganda masquerading as information and analysis.

Nor is America fighting "Islam". It has often sided, sometimes openly and other times covertly, with some of its most virulently backward and grotesque representatives. Instead, the same way America's "Muslim ban" is actually a ban on the "least Muslim" of these Muslim groups, namely mostly Iranians (and those from states with pro Iran groups), and leaves out Muslim states who have actually been waging the kind of crusade against the West that frighten Americans and colors their view of Islam, America's war in the region has ultimately been all about Iran. This myopic focus, itself, partly because of the huge influence of the pro Israel lobby and those who sympathize with it, in America. But, of course, since Iran is most definitely anti-American (hegemony) in the region, there will always be others aspects of Iranian actions to justify America's policies against Iran even outside the issue about Israel.

 

The US has no military option against Iran
You go on believing the US has not targeted key installations on Iran. It is clear you are a mouthpiece for Iran.

The current rulership of Iran will not last forever, they need to much autocratic laws, courts and enforcement that needs to be sustained for them to maintain power. They certainly may be quite capable of keeping their power for years, but your economy is too slow and small, due to its own abuse executive powers for their rule to last.

 

Alliances can end, like the one between the USA and the USSR, when it becomes clear that they no longer serve the interests of the allies. Trump publicly announced that our relationship with the PKK was coming o an end at least two years ago. The link between PKK and internal political affairs and factions in the US, especially AntiFa, probably made Trump very suspicious of them.

"United States law doesn’t criminalize foreign fighting per se, but we do have vaguely worded anti-terrorism statutes that Shayana Kadidal, a lawyer at the Center for Constitutional Rights, tells me could “almost certainly” be applied to American volunteers like Bailey, Hogan, Clark and Wilmeth because of the YPG’s close affiliation with the Kurdistan Workers’ Party, or PKK, the Turkish militant group that Öcalan founded in 1978. Fairly or not, the United States classifies the PKK as a terrorist organization, and so does the European Union, but none of the scores of Americans who have returned from fighting in the YPG have been charged, which may have something to do with the fact that the U.S. government has thousands of military personnel in Syria working hand-in-glove with the YPG, many of whom, as they surely know, are PKK fighters who have merely changed uniforms."
ROLLING STONE, The Untold Story of Syria's Antifa Platoon, By SETH HARP, JULY 10, 2018.
https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/untold-story-syria-antifa-platoon-666159/

 

It's pretty funny that Trump supporters want to claim liberals don't listen to them when they take the first 8 words of a post, ignore the context, and then twist them to be somehow pro-Iranian when all the poster was pointing out was that military options exist, but they'd be disastrous in their after-effects.

 

Trump's surrender to the Turkish dictator liberates Islamic State terrorists.

Former Defense Secretary James Mattis... warned... that [Trump]'s decision to pull troops from Syria's border in advance of a Turkish incursion could have dire consequences and lead to ISIS's resurgence.

"We have got to keep the pressure on ISIS so they don't recover," Mattis said...

And in this case, if we don't keep the pressure on, then ISIS will resurge. It's absolutely a given that they will come back."

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/worl...announced-troop-pullout/ar-AAIIKRg?li=AAggFp4​

 

You keep dodging this.

Why do you want the US to fight Turkey and not Europeans who are currently dealing with the fallout?

Why do you want my men to die?

Just curious. Every time I ask you just deflect. Wondering if you'll actually give your reasoning as to why we SPECIFICALLY need to fight when there are plenty of other military's that can easily handle this.

 

The Kurds and others were fighting in our favor, Trump just changed all that. Ironic, since in a number of posts you knocked Obama because he dealt 5 Taliban for 1 US soldier. Yet, Trump has paid the Taliban just to sit in on meetings, and now his policy has just freed ISIS prisoners, and you still defend him.

 

So the massive troops in Europe we've been training for decades (I personally have trained some) cannot handle this problem that Europe keeps saying is such an issue?

Why exactly do WE need to be there? Why do WE have to be there specifically?

 

Trump gave no notice to anyone but Erdogan that he would be withdrawing any troops within the next few hours so how could Europe or the UN get organized to take over. Those 50 troops that were withdrawn from that area of Syria were not doing any fighting but were the guarantee that Turkey would not attack inside Northern Syria. Strange that Trump did nor remove the other 1000 or so US soldiers out of Syria that were not near the Syrian/Turkey border area that were attacked by Turkey, Just what did Trump talk to Erdogan in the phone call minutes before the announcement that 50 troops were to be withdrawn - did he pass on information of weak points in the Kurdish defense..............

And now we hear that extremists have joined in the killing of civilians fleeing the area and the remaining US soldiers are also going to be removed because it is feared that the extremists will also attack them. Nice mess has been created by Trump! What a waste of 5 year effort to remove Daesh and of thousands of deaths

 

See post 594. You have yet to address what I've asked almost 6 times on this thread.

 

Not me. I'm dealing in the there and now, not what has happened in the past. No US troops should be in the Middle east. The US interference is the main cause of the continuing wars, and eternal wars is US Foreign policy in the Middle East

 

You have not answered it, not even close. I'll ask again and see if you'll answer without deflection:

Why can't Europe (Many nations with massive military assets) who has been asking for this to be resolved...handle it themselves?

Why do you want my men to die there when it's in their backyard?

Are you claiming all of Europe can't stop Turkey? lol

 

Post 597

 

You failed to answer it in that post. Please quote exactly what answers my question. Or what you think answers it.