Nordic model... Socialism?

Communist China now offers national health care to it's 1.3 BILLION citizens and in recent years they have produced far more new millionaires and billionaires than any country in the world.

 

You credit them with forethought. Big mistake.

 

Few people have a problem with genuine refugees. Even then, we expect those who are gifted safe haven to appreciate the nation who did so, not abuse, exploit, or disrespect it. We expect that hand of friendship to be returned in the form of respect for laws, culture, language, and the nation itself.

 

Well said. I'm also a member of a migrant family (who arrived here in my own generation), from a very different non-white culture. We feel exactly as you do. And we probably have more insight into just how much exploitation is going on - exploitation that white Progressives know nothing about. They are utterly naive and clueless.

 

Exactly.

What's so ironic about all of this is that the very culture which gave birth to Progressivism, are rapidly dying out under pressure from extremist conservatives imported from other cultures. That Progressives can't even see that tells you how dim these bulbs are. And not just dim, but outrageously arrogant. They think their ways are so incredibly seductive, that all of these brown conservatives will be helpless in the face of it. That's how much they REALLY think of the little brown people.

 

No one is anti-immigration. In fact we need more industrious and culturally compatible migrants in the West. Chinese, Indian, African, etc.

Your 'race' argument is beyond feeble. Give it up.

 

Right, as expected. Diversity is a nice place to visit, but you wouldn't want to live there.

 

And yet the average chinese person makes less (approx 10k a year) than the average poor person in US (around 20k). Even the poor in US live like kings compared to the average chinese person.

 

You sound like you need to get your tin foil hat re=fitted.

 

I absolutely disagree with what you are saying about average Chinese.Why have GM and Ford been selling far more vehicles in China than they have on the USA in the past several years.Have you seen any videos of all the modern roads and buildings in Chinese cities today???They are putting us in the dark ages as our roads,sewer systems,bridges,airports,ports and our infrastructure decays and rots away.Not only are they now producing electric autos but now they have just produced an electric plane.

 

It’s a fact my friend.. wealth in a country isn’t measured by what you see in the big cities.. it’s what you see in country side, rural areas. I have been to beijing, have you? Huge and impressive city, now drive around and venture to country side, you will see real poverty resembling a 3rd world country.

look it up pal, median income is around 12k a year
https://www.stlouisfed.org/on-the-economy/2018/january/income-living-standards-china

link above states 12k

now median income in Us? Approx 50-60k is what i see.

these numbers may be a few years old but they haven’t changed much.

You know what povery line is in US? 25k so guess what, the poor in US make more than the average chinese person! That’s how well ahead of china we are, economically.

 

40% of WORKING AMERICANS make$15 an hour and less,about $31,000 per year after taxes about $20,000.More and more Chinese are being drawn into their emphasis on urbanization.They are growing millionaires and billionaires far faster than we ever have.And they still manage to grow far more food than we do.

 

I just showed you the stats, median household income in US - 50-60k, China - 12-15k. The poverty line in US is 25k so if you make 25k a year in US, you are twice as rich as the average person on China.

People get all impressed by seeing the big cities in China, heck even NK has an impressive big City. The BIG difference is how people live outside of the city., millions in China are DIRT poor, they make someone making 25k in US look rich. I come from a developing Country, i know what i'm talking about. You people who have lived in the US all your lives have no freaking idea what poor really is! You are so used to living in the wealthiest country in the world that what you consider poor here is filthy rich in many countries.

Educate yourself on how the average person lives in China, or latin America, or africa, or middle east... you will realize that even the poor here have it good relative to how millions and millions live around the world and yes, even those in China!

This is the key thing people don't understand, communist countries are so restricted in growth that yes there is equality but the avg person in communist countries doesn't live as well as even the poor in Unites States! Go to Cuba, go to China, venture outside the city, you will see dirt poor!

 

When you pull your head out of your arse.

 

Some of these Nordic countries have outranked the US on the free market index. What these countries are essentially doing is using the revenue generated through capitalism to pay for social programs

 

And they are small countries with small populations.

 

yep..

it's a shame no democrat has the courage to call out Bernie and AOC on this. They claim Nordic model is what they want but it's not. Nordic model is free market capitalism as it's foundation, which allows economy to flourish, which in turn allows for generous entitlements and safety net. It's a free market economy that is able to fund welfare.

What AOC and Bernie want is to limit choice and stampede on private sector, stifling growth. So their formula is regulate and suffocate private sector, limit choice and then increase free stuff, doesn't work that way. This is not how Nordic system works.

There is not even minimum wage in denmark, norway, finland and sweden and this is something Bernie absolutely requires in his system. Healthcare is similar to medicare for all but there is some cost sharing and system allows for private insurance to compliment what state provides. It seems the trend in Scandavian Countries has been to increase use of private health insurance, something Bernie wants to destroy. Long waiting lists has been a complaint of citizens, private insurance somewhat address this by giving access to private hospitals. The public system isn't as comprehensive as what Bernie wants and so citizens turn to private insurance to supplement what public sector provides. There is some choice here.... not really what bernie wants, he wants government dictating everything, offering everything.

Sure, let's talk about implementing Nordic system but let's have an honest discussion about it and not lie to Americans about what it actually is.

 

What Scandinavia has is not transferable to the U.S.

It’s like comparing a grape to a four course steak and lobster dinner.

 

Exactly. And let's not forget that those programs are a luxury, afforded only via the healthy profits of capitalism.

 

Not just small, but up until recently very culturally cohesive. Monocultures - the only kind of society which will ever reach agreement on anything.

 

I don't say that immigrants are not part of the problem but claiming this is the whole problem is way too simplistic.

Your claim that immigrants who are less educated and less rich do not contribute is simply false. The vast majority do contribute. Just because a fruit picker does not have the disposable income of a wall street lawyer - does not mean they do not contribute.

One could argue that the fruit picker contributes more - for that matter.

Way too simplistic and far to many logical flaws.

 

the problem is that too many don't do anything, many are just mom and dad brother, son who don't work and then many of them complain about Trump.I respect the fruit picker that works hard as long as he respects laws, is thankful that even picking fruits allows him to live a better life than where he was before, a safer existence too. What i don't respect is the fruit picker who comes here and wants to change america to what he wants america to be and complain about America, when America is giving him a shot at a better life.

Immigration and changing demographics, increase in diversity can ultimately lead to downfall of a prosperous, organized society. This is not merely opinion, it is fact and history shows it. The complication is when there is an aging population in a Country, they need younger immigrants who can work, otherwise, who sustains the population who is getting older and older. In my view, it just has to be managed properly, let those who love America, respect it's laws and traditions in, those who work. The others who just protest, accuse america of being racist and bad, meanwhile they come to seek a better life, kick them out or not let them come in. It's also a challenge when the population becomes less educated, over time, then ignorance becomes a problem, to the point where one day a populist socialist can rise to power and i'm speaking of someone much worse than Bernie. When a large portion of a population are ignorant, they just don't know any better, the lack of knowledge leads to very bad people in office, think Hugo Chavez.

When i migrated to USA, there was a mall about 15 mins away. It was vibrant, popular, sold great stuff, the environment was that of joy, people of every class went, mostly middle-upper class. 10 years later, i went and it was totally changed place, had deteriorated totally and i noticed there weren't any more upper class white people roaming around, it was invaded by mexicans and blacks. The upper class didn't visit anymore. The place was run down, didn't feel safe and eventually closed.

Now, what is the first reaction of a liberal to what i just wrote? 'YOU RACIST' but remember, i'm a latino immigrant and have nothing against blacks, mexicans but the fact remains that this mall went from being such a lovely place to an unsafe, sh$thole and eventually had to close. All this happened for only one reason - a drastic change in demographics. This mall is no different than a Country, just at a much smaller scale.

 

All of the OP is true, and well said. What blocks the United States from attempting to recreate such a system is not however a failure to properly calibrate the ratio of capitalism to socialism as much as it is that all of those countries have multi party parliamentary systems that fundamentally functions on balancing power through coalition. While the Untied States has a two party system which is based in America's somewhat unique absolute victory psychology as a nation.

You can't have a system here that blends low regulation, high taxation, and social welfare because to do so would require giving the other team an acknowledgement that perhaps they are not stupid, or evil, or "just hate ____ ", and lets face it when politics is not a star wars like struggle between good and evil its just boring. Boring doesn't get donations or voters in America. Thus your only hope in the American political system of seeing any of your ideology becoming policy is not to work it into law through building coalitions through give and take it is to beat the other team ram it down their throat and chortle like a 12 year about how you won neener neener.

 

AOC actually majored in economics, and hasn't supported anything that would transition the means of production from the private sector, which would be the basis of a socialist economy. In a socialist economy, the private sector is not the source of the means of production

 

Ha ha