Should Pelosi shut down the hearings to save the party or continue on and risk everything?

I must have missed where Pelosi has said this was not an official impeachment, have a source for that?

And because members of the public were calling for his impeachment does not mean the impeachment process began when he was elected.

Impeachment will not get trump out of office, the senate will acquit.

 

This is from the transcript provided by the White House. This is what Trump told the Ukrainian president.

"I would like you to do us a favor though. The other thing, there's a lot of.talk about Biden's son, that Biden stopped the prosecution and a lot of people want to find out about that so whatever you can do with the Attorney General would be great. Biden went around bragging that he stopped the prosecution so if you can look into it ... It sounds horrible to me."

No hearsay, no second or third hand testimony, the quote above is straight from the horse's mouth.

So, is this.

At a recent briefing, White House chief of staff Mick Mulvaney blithely described quid pro quo. “What you’re describing is a quid pro quo,” asserted a reporter. “We do that all the time,” replied Mulvaney. “Did he also mention to me the corruption related to the DNC server? Absolutely. No question about it. But that’s it. That’s why we held up the money … I have news for everybody: Get over it. There’s going to be political influence in [Trump's] foreign policy.”

 

My three posts contained evidence. All three were ignored by all of Trump's fans who posted after the fact.

 

But none of your evidence showed anything untoward, illegal, or unconstitutional. This makes the impeachment look preposterous and farcical, as it is.

 

Russia could have monitored Trump's call with Sondland, State Dept. official testified
https://www.politico.com/news/2019/...ion-ukraine-impeachment-sondland-trump-071433

President Donald Trump's call to the cell phone of a U.S. ambassador — a call that included a discussion of "investigations" Trump was asking Ukraine to launch into his Democratic rivals — was at risk of being monitored by Russia, a State Department official told House impeachment investigators.

David Holmes was in a restaurant in Kyiv with U.S. Ambassador Gordon Sondland on July 26, when Sondland called Trump to discuss the probes. Holmes told members of the House Intelligence Committee that he "vividly" recalled the conversation because Trump's voice was so loud and discernible, and the two spoke so openly about the investigations.

 

Based on what I am hearing from other pollsters, by all mean continue this farce.

When contrasted with what Horowitz, Barr, and Durham are going to reveal over the coming months, it will paint a clear picture of the Democrat house of cards.

 

I'm a Democrat, & what I see happening is Democrats in Congress trying to save the Constitution, & the Presidency, from a despicable con man, who uses the powers of that office to serve himself rather than the country.

The real embarrassment here is from the Republicans, who've decided that all the human values they used to say they stood for, are no longer worthy of consideration, & are now replaced by their new cultish, total dedication, loyalty, & subservience to Donald J. Trump. Republicans now concede that Trump has replaced the nation as their main focus, & any behavior or action is warranted in his defense, including lying, cheating, criminal activity, or whatever. They've adopted Trump's philosophy of life, that winning in any context, enriching themselves, seeking & holding power at any cost, and eliminating anyone who dares oppose them, are all that's really important. Traditional values like honesty, honor, trust, friendship, & compassion, have all been cast aside as irrelevant & an impediment to gaining what they want. American democracy, individual rights, trust & confidence in a free press, an opposition party, the established government, & even the Constitution itself, are regarded as impediments to winning their perverted goals. The Trump-Republicans have become the antithesis of the historic America which stood for human rights, democracy, honor, trust & truth. Trump & his sycophants are in no way "Making America Great Again." It's entirely the opposite.

 

Impeachment Hearings Live Updates: Republicans Question Vindman’s Loyalty

Republicans, as usual, cannot challenge the evidence against Trump so they attack the integrity of the witness.

The top Ukraine expert at the National Security Council, Colonel Alexander S. Vindman, testified that Trump’s call with Ukraine’s president in which Trump asked for investigations of former Vice President Joseph R. Biden Jr. was “inappropriate” and “a partisan play.”

Representative Jim Jordan of Ohio cited critical comments about Colonel Vindman’s judgment from two other impeachment witnesses, Timothy Morrison and Fiona Hill, Vindman’s former boss at the National Security Council.

“Any idea why they have those impressions?” Mr. Jordan inquired.

“Alex is a top one percent military officer and the best army officer I have worked with in my 15 years of government service,” Vindman said, quoting Hill. “He is brilliant, unflappable, and exercises excellent judgment.”

Republicans also pressed Colonel Vindman, an American citizen and Army officer who was born in Ukraine, about how Oleksandr Danylyuk, the director of Ukraine’s national security council, had approached him three times to offer him the job of defense minister in Kiev.

This as if, because the Ukrainians offered Vindman a job three times, has something to do with Vindman's loyalty. In defending their guilty President, Republicans are reaching. Vindman confirmed the offers and testified that he repeatedly declined, dismissing the idea out of hand and reporting the approaches to his superiors and to counterintelligence officials.

“Every single time, I dismissed it,” he said, adding that “I’m an American. I came here when I was a toddler. And I immediately dismissed these offers, did not entertain them.”

 

That is Trump's fans' idea of defending Trump. The evidence doesn't exist. It is "preposterous and farcical," they say, but offer no support for their statement. We are just supposed to believe that Trump's invitation for foreign intervention in our Presidential election while extorting a foreign leader didn't happen.

That is a curious defense because we have Trump's own words and those of his chief of staff that evidence does exist.

Trump is guilty as hell, and his fans like RodB know it. Their defense is meek and futile.

 

In my world (the real one) if evidence does not exist other than in the dreams of some I usually say evidence does not exist. There is not even reasonable suspicion that Trump's invitation for foreign intervention in our Presidential election while extorting a foreign leader happened. You are just looking at a red wagon and saying, "See, a blue truck!" Not evidence of anything.

 

Office of honor doesn't include elected positions. Even prisoners can win an election.

 

This needs to continue, there are only 10,000 or so excellent campaigning soundbites, slogans, memes and rallying cries available to Trump for 2020 already and this 10,001 is very important to his chances of winning another term.

Making Adam Schiff the face of the Democratic Party rolling right up to an election year was pure genius. It must continue as long as possible.

 

Impeach Mr. Trump for Mr Bidens crimes!

Assassinate a political foe in a election year!

 

I'm not Pelosi, so I say keep this train going. The longer it goes on, the more pressure there is going to be to have an impeachment vote and send this to the senate. Once there...McConnell is in charge.

If I were him, I would have the impeachment trial last all year, right up to the election. That holds the senators in DC, they can't campaign, and they can call witness after witness to testify, Schiff, all the people currently testifying, Pelosi, Comey, Biden (both of them) just make this last and last...and then, for an October surprise, have the vote, Trump wins the vote, and is declared vindicated!

Republicans would be thanking Pelosi for this impeachment.

 

Impeachment Hearings Live Updates: Republicans Question Vindman’s Loyalty

Republicans, as usual, cannot challenge the evidence against Trump so they attack the integrity of the witness.

The top Ukraine expert at the National Security Council, Colonel Alexander S. Vindman, testified that Trump’s call with Ukraine’s president in which Trump asked for investigations of former Vice President Joseph R. Biden Jr. was “inappropriate” and “a partisan play.”

Representative Jim Jordan of Ohio cited critical comments about Colonel Vindman’s judgment from two other impeachment witnesses, Timothy Morrison and Fiona Hill, Vindman’s former boss at the National Security Council.

“Any idea why they have those impressions?” Mr. Jordan inquired.

“Alex is a top one percent military officer and the best army officer I have worked with in my 15 years of government service,” Vindman said, quoting Hill. “He is brilliant, unflappable, and exercises excellent judgment.”

Republicans also pressed Colonel Vindman, an American citizen and Army officer who was born in Ukraine, about how Oleksandr Danylyuk, the director of Ukraine’s national security council, had approached him three times to offer him the job of defense minister in Kiev.

This as if, because the Ukrainians offered Vindman a job three times, has something to do with Vindman's loyalty. In defending their guilty President, Republicans are reaching. Vindman confirmed the offers and testified that he repeatedly declined, dismissing the idea out of hand and reporting the approaches to his superiors and to counterintelligence officials.

“Every single time, I dismissed it,” he said, adding that “I’m an American. I came here when I was a toddler. And I immediately dismissed these offers, did not entertain them.”

 

Republicans spent most of the day avoiding the testimony of the witnesses, providing their own testimony, attacking the media, and attacking the integrity of the Democrat's witnesses, Jennifer Williams and Colonel Alex Vindman.

In the afternoon the Intelligence Committee dealt with the Republican witnesses, Kurt Volker and Tim Morrison. They basically substantiated the reasons for the impeachment inquiry.

Volker offered very different testimony on Tuesday than he did when he spoke behind closed doors with House impeachment investigators.

"Since these events, and since I gave my testimony on October 3, a great deal of additional information and perspectives have come to light," Volker told the House Intelligence Committee.

Volker said in his October testimony that any conversations with the Ukrainians about making an announcement on the opening of an investigation into the Bidens had ended in August. But on Tuesday, Volker acknowledged that US Ambassador to the European Union Gordon Sondland had told a top Ukrainian official on September 1 that he believed the military aid was tied to the announcement of an investigation.

In an eyebrow-raising text he sent to a Ukrainian official Volker wrote “assuming President Z convinces trump he will investigate / ‘get to the bottom of what happened’ in 2016, we will nail down date for visit to Washington.”

Timothy Morrison, who recently quit as the senior director for Europe and Ukraine at the National Security Council, said he did not think the President’s July 25 call with President Volodymyr Zelensky of Ukraine was inherently wrong or illegal, but feared it would ignite a political storm if it became public.

“I feared at the time of the call on July 25 how its disclosure would play in Washington’s climate,” he said. “My fears have been realized. I understand the gravity of these proceedings, but I beg you not to lose sight of the military conflict underway in Ukraine today.”

These are Republican witnesses. The Democratic leadership can only thank Nunes, Jordon, and the rest of Trump's defense team.

 

Sandy, your post 58 and 65 are repeats. Let's stay on topic. Let Pelosi continue to bury the alt left wing of the Democrat party.

 

She should keep going.

They almost have him now.

 

the left has never, ever believed in the constitution... that is why they're always suing to try to change it...

 

The interesting thing about today is that neither the Republicans nor the Republican counsel challenged the witness statements. They dealt with tangential issues and often times asked awkward questions that had the witness puzzled.

It was a bad day for Trump.

Vindman told House impeachment investigators that it was "improper" for President Donald Trump to "demand a foreign government investigate a U.S. citizen and political opponent."

Had Vindman stood alone — under attack as he was from Trump, Donald Trump Jr. and other allies of the president — he would have made for a compelling witness.

But later in the day, his conclusion was supported by two Republican witnesses — former special envoy to Ukraine Kurt Volker and former National Security Council staffer and longtime GOP Hill aide Tim Morrison — who said that it was not "appropriate" for a President to ask a foreign leader to investigate an American citizen, particularly one, former Vice President Joe Biden, who is a political rival of the president.

Volker also confirmed the extortion involving the Ukrainian leader.

 

Really sorry about that. It was unintentional. In the afternoon I forgot what I did in the morning. I try hard not to make that mistake.

I am on topic. You just don't like what I'm saying. This thread concerns the House impeachment inquiry. That is exactly what concerns my posts. Deal with it.

 

The topic is should Pelosi shut down the hearings. I say let them drone on.