Intelligence Committee members can review impeachment report on Monday

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by MrTLegal, Dec 1, 2019.

  1. Tim15856

    Tim15856 Well-Known Member

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    And that is how it works. In fights between the executive and legislative branches, the courts decide. As I already mentioned to our resident counselor, previous admins used executive privilege when confronted by the legislative branch and it was up to the judiciary to decide who was right. Never has a president faced impeachment for not blindly giving congress everything they demanded.
     
  2. Egoboy

    Egoboy Well-Known Member Donor

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    Well, that's true... Nixon cooperated with Congress until April 1974, and still faced an article for ignoring valid subpoenas...

    Trump - Setting precedent every day!!
     
  3. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    After first hearing little will happen further until after Christmas . 2020 will have arrived - and the election getting close.

    How long will these hearings drag on for ? then presumably to a vote in the house for impeachment - which will be shot down in the Senate.

    I don't see how this will help the Dem's in the next election - but , that is what they are betting on.
     
  4. Tim15856

    Tim15856 Well-Known Member

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    I've never actually looked at the articles of Nixon's impeachment since he resigned before the hearing.
    I'd have to investigate what this article is referring to, was it the 18 mins gap in the tape?
     
  5. Egoboy

    Egoboy Well-Known Member Donor

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    The tapes themselves!

    SNIP
    has failed without lawful cause or excuse to produce papers and things as directed by duly authorized subpoenas issued by the Committee on the Judiciary of the House of Representatives on April 11, 1974, May 15, 1974, May 30, 1974, and June 24, 1974, and willfully disobeyed such subpoenas.
    ENDSNIP

    https://watergate.info/impeachment/articles-of-impeachment

    SNIP
    On April 11, 1974 — following the February vote by the full House to authorize an impeachment inquiry — the Judiciary Committee issued a subpoena, seeking White House tapes, transcripts, notes and memoranda relating to 147 conversations in which investigators believed that the president and his aides discussed, among other things, the Watergate burglary and its cover-up. Nixon, of course, refused.
    ENDSNIP

    https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opini...-watergate-offers-house-democrats-ncna1001426
     
  6. Egoboy

    Egoboy Well-Known Member Donor

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    Don't bet on that... Everything I'm reading is pointing towards the vote on articles in the House on Saturday 12/21 (which is the exact date I predicted back in October... I wish I could find that post)...

    EDIT - Nancy is making an impeachment announcement today at 9am... tune in for more...
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2019
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  7. Tim15856

    Tim15856 Well-Known Member

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    So, did Nixon claim executive privilege or what reason did he give for his refusal?
    (I know I can probably look this stuff up, but you seem to be well informed)
     
  8. Egoboy

    Egoboy Well-Known Member Donor

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    I've maxed out my Nixon knowledge... I'm just hammering my Google machine like everybody else...

    Ah, thank you Wiki

    SNIp
    On July 16, 1973, Butterfield told the committee in a televised hearing that Nixon had ordered a taping system installed in the White House to automatically record all conversations. Special Counsel Archibald Cox, a former United States Solicitor General under President John F. Kennedy, asked District Court Judge John Sirica to subpoena nine relevant tapes to confirm the testimony of White House Counsel John Dean.[13]

    President Nixon initially refused to release the tapes, for two reasons: first, that the Constitutional principle of executive privilege extends to the tapes and citing the separation of powers and checks and balances within the Constitution, and second, claiming they were vital to national security.[14]
    ENDSNIP

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nixon_White_House_tapes

    But note how slow things moved back then... The original request for the tapes was in Summer 1973. It wasn't until April 1974 Congress issued their formal subpoena...
     
  9. Tim15856

    Tim15856 Well-Known Member

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    So they had an article of impeachment for something Nixon claimed executive privilege for. I recall a few presidents doing that and impeachment never came up, or at least it didn't become an official process. The taping process was something Nixon voluntarily did and few knew about it I see. It seems this is the same as prosecutors finding out you kept a daily diary and demanded you hand it over. Wouldn't that be like self incrimination?
     
  10. Egoboy

    Egoboy Well-Known Member Donor

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    They wrote that article after the SCOTUS ruled 8-0 against Nixon

    SNIP
    The Court's opinion found that the courts could indeed intervene on the matter and that Special Counsel Jaworski had proven a "sufficient likelihood that each of the tapes contains conversations relevant to the offenses charged in the indictment". While the Court acknowledged that the principle of executive privilege did exist, the Court would also directly reject President Nixon's claim to an "absolute, unqualified Presidential privilege of immunity from judicial process under all circumstances."

    The Court held that a claim of Presidential privilege as to materials subpoenaed for use in a criminal trial cannot override the needs of the judicial process if that claim is based, not on the ground that military or diplomatic secrets are implicated, but merely on the ground of a generalized interest in confidentiality. Nixon was then ordered to deliver the subpoenaed materials to the District Court.
    ENDSNIP

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Nixon

    The sentence in bold is exactly what Trump is trying to do now and it's been rejected by the SCOTUS.... which is why the D's are not going to wait for the SCOTUS to make the same ruling again.
     
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  11. Dutch

    Dutch Well-Known Member Past Donor

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  12. Badaboom

    Badaboom Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    And the next time a democrat gets elected president but lose the house, let's do the same thing to him and totally paralyze the government on trivial/petty nonsense. What is good for the goose...
     
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  13. Dutch

    Dutch Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Against Trump, they have begun writing articles a minute Trump was announced the winner of the election. From then on, it was only a matter of finding a plausible cause. Democrats could not, so they assembled the kangaroo court anyway.

    You know it is true. Admit it.
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2019
  14. Egoboy

    Egoboy Well-Known Member Donor

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    Factually incorrect..

    But I don't disagree that his track record of behavior didn't help his cause here...

    EDIT - LOL, speaking of behavior issues

    SNIP
    Mr Trump is exhibiting “definitive signs of severe pathology of someone who requires an advanced level of care” and who “meets every criterion of lacking a rational decision making capacity”.
    ENDSNIP

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/pres...-urgently-warn-congress/ar-BBXK7J9?li=BBoPRmx
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2019
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  15. MrTLegal

    MrTLegal Well-Known Member

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    Trump has exerted a brand new privilege to keep those witnesses from even showing up.

    Absolute immunity. That is the same legal theory he is using to stop the release of his tax returns in the New York criminal investigation.

    And if you think he is correct, then what stops a future president from ordering his employee to commit an explicit felony and then declaring that witness is absolutely immune from providing any congressional or criminal testimony?
     
  16. Badaboom

    Badaboom Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Irreleveant word pablum and conspiracy theory.
     
  17. Dutch

    Dutch Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I realize the attention span of an average Democrat is between CNN's breathless Breaking News reports but do try to remember the FBI's plotting insurance policy in case Trump wins, and multiple not so subtle promises of various Democrats to impeach him from a minute Trump was elected.

    You don't remember? I do not doubt you.
     
  18. Egoboy

    Egoboy Well-Known Member Donor

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    Sure I remember... show me those articles... that was your claim, after all..

    Personally, I wasn't on the impeachment train until last December, when Trump was confirmed as Individual 1 in the Cohen mess... I certainly wouldn't have minded it anytime before that, but it wasn't plausible until then for me...

    Now it's required.
     
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  19. Andrew Jackson

    Andrew Jackson Well-Known Member

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    That ALREADY happened (in 1998.).
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2019
  20. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Subsequent to making my post - I heard the same - not the exact date but that the vote will come before xmas.

    After the Senate rejects impeachment - do you think this will be the end of it ?
     
  21. MrTLegal

    MrTLegal Well-Known Member

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    No, he will forever carry the record of First President to be Impeached in his First Term.

    And campaign ads against nearly every Republican who stood by that impeached ******* will be put on blast across the country.
     
  22. MrTLegal

    MrTLegal Well-Known Member

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    Trump is exerting absolute immunity as his justification for refusing to cooperate with either the congressional or the criminal investigations.
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2019
  23. MrTLegal

    MrTLegal Well-Known Member

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    Every President has seen support for impeachment reach around ~33% of the country at some point in their presidency. Trump managed to hit the 50% mark in his first term.

    But as recently as mid-september, almost no one believed that Trump would be impeached in his first term. Now?

    upload_2019-12-5_10-28-5.png
     
  24. Egoboy

    Egoboy Well-Known Member Donor

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    Doubtful... I'm sure Trump is actively working on other impeachable acts as I type.. we need the Whistleblowers of America to come together...

    But I don't see what you can do further with Ukraine... Trump's effort was exposed, the Ukraine 2016 myth has been re-debunked, and it seems probable Biden doesn't make the final primary cut, so it may not have had as much impact as it could have.

    I think the most interesting thing to watch outside of impeachment is for the courts making "final" rulings on "absolute immunity" and whether the Senate will vote to essentially give away one of their powers over the Executive Branch...
     
  25. Badaboom

    Badaboom Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    More pablum...
     

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