U.S. Army Tries New Recruiting Tactics

Discussion in 'Warfare / Military' started by Lil Mike, Sep 17, 2019.

  1. FatBack

    FatBack Well-Known Member

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    Never charged with murder or even assault but I was a very bad boy, dont really want to get into all the details, no sex crimes or anything of that nature but suffice it to say, I was no stranger to state facilities, such that even the Army said no. Everything happens for a reason, maybe in some other life. That ship has done sailed.
     
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  2. BuckyBadger

    BuckyBadger Well-Known Member

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    It's a numbers game. We lost a bunch in NROTC for many reasons that went from discipline, grades, medical, drugs/alcohol and guys that just plain quit. Flight school was even tougher. In the end the military does their very best to keep the guys that fit the best into the program. I feel like the Officer corp has a better retention rate than the enlisted ranks but I have never actually looked up the statistics so it's purely a gut feeling.
     
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  3. Nightmare515

    Nightmare515 Ragin' Cajun Staff Member Past Donor

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    It does as far as kicking people out for disciplinary reasons or fitness standards. But Officers are just as likely, if not more likely, to walk away after their contract is up due to the fact that they have experience and a degree to transfer into the civilian world.

    The problem with the numbers game is that the DoD doesn't like swallowing hard pills. Our military is vast, and in order to keep it functioning we need bodies. We of course would love for the military to only be comprised of above average citizens but the reality is that there just aren't enough of those to go around. This yo-yo effect of branches downsizing then ramping up is detrimental to the force as a whole. Sequestration was living proof of that and we are still hurting badly from that today with it going to take another decade or so to reverse that if we stayed on our present course. But we of course won't because with each Presidential Administration the goals change which puts us in a never ending cycle.

    We always hear phrases like "smaller and more fit" and while that sounds good on paper it's simply unrealistic. The requirements of the US Armed Forces on a global scale are just too high to try to play that game.
     
  4. ARDY

    ARDY Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    maybe the army should stop excluding gays.... just a thought
     
  5. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    That's your thought? They've been able to join since 2011.
     
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  6. ARDY

    ARDY Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Truthfully I have not kept track
    Although I do remember people getting kicked out for this reason
    I just remember it was strongly suggested that such a policy would ruin the military.... problems with gay rape and such..... maybe these problems are being suppressed? Or maybe that is why we have a recruitment problem?

    do you agree with letting gays in the military
    And why do you think there was such vehement opposition?
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2019
  7. ARDY

    ARDY Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    apparently

    In 2010, two federal courts ruled the ban on openly gay, lesbian, and bisexual service personnel unconstitutional, and on July 6, 2011,

    is this an example of judicial over reach?
     
  8. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    I'm pretty sure that topic has been pretty well explored on this forum, and doesn't have anything to do with the current thread. However you are free to explore the archives and report back in an appropriate thread. It might be interesting to have people compare their positions then vs. now.
     
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  9. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    Yes but it has nothing to do with the actual lifting of the ban on gays in the military. That was signed into law by President Obama. I don't think the court ruling ever went into effect.
     
  10. ARDY

    ARDY Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Imo, congress and obama used the court ruling as political cover
     
  11. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    Possible but irrelevant.
     
  12. ARDY

    ARDY Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    probably
    certainly, but when has that inhibited any of ud
    Yes, i think it would be interesting, but stale
     
  13. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    Well you brought the stale topic up.
     
  14. ARDY

    ARDY Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You expect relevance, ever the optimist
     
  15. ARDY

    ARDY Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Yes, i did
     
  16. ArmySoldier

    ArmySoldier Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Can you cite sources that led you to this conclusion? Or is this something you made up in your head because you love Obama?

    Feel free to cite sources. If you refuse- then we know the answer.
     
  17. tkolter

    tkolter Well-Known Member

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    My family has a large career military percentage historically and I have four things that could help some from older programs from the Cold War period.

    1. For those who qualify as in college entrance standards being met assure a bachelors degree in Military Science for a six year commitment upon completion of on-line and on base classes, work experience and offer say ten specializations to focus on and a military command component. That would be to me a deal maker for talent,

    2. Then after number one offer a rank boost, a masters degree in a limited number of areas related to their degree specialty for another six years in a re-up and not be cheap here. Try to get them going to career hard.

    (Noting this is a issue of getting talent and keeping it you want top college level people to join and consider going career you need to offer what they want a degree path IMHO. It might be a costly option but you get talent its a trade off.)

    3. I would boost pay and some benefits over buying new hardware if you're budgeting for the less college type coming in you can try to make it a competitive career for enlisted people in basic ways why not offer night trade school with bumps in pay for earning a diploma and classes by on-line and correspondence study from a university every course means a better soldier or sailor. It also makes talent stay in.

    4. Seriously let in people without a High School Diploma use a testing both written and practical if they pass they are in as an option the British Army does this why not do a two day assessment here in the US. And I would let in people with minor criminal pasts and who want a fresh start a car jacker might make a fine marine given a shot.

    Well my ideas anyway but I see an issue of lack of education, benefits and lack of flexibility in recruitment that are issues in short you need to be less picky on the low end but must be sure they are decent material.
     
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  18. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    I'm not really understanding your first suggestion. Aren't you basically describing ROTC?
     
  19. tkolter

    tkolter Well-Known Member

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    Built into the time served as a free benefit you do your time with good standing and put in the work with proper passing of courses you get a real degree free you need to make going in work for college talent to get college talent and it might lead to career hard person who can just benefit the nation.
     
  20. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    Uh OK
     
  21. BuckyBadger

    BuckyBadger Well-Known Member

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    That is very true. I found in the aviation community, we had more officers stick around than opt out to fly "buses" in the civilian world. Especially for rotary since those jobs are even harder to get.
     
  22. Up On the Governor

    Up On the Governor Well-Known Member

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    That’s the exact opposite of our real problem. No one is sticking around.
     
  23. Nightmare515

    Nightmare515 Ragin' Cajun Staff Member Past Donor

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    Times are changing rapidly in regards to this in the rotary wing community. With the new Rotary to Airline Group policy with airlines now accepting rotary wing pilots the civilian market has absolutely gutted the military rotary wing community.

    It all boils back down to the quality of life. For most folks flying a passenger jet is not as "cool" as flying an attack helicopter but the quality of life difference between the two outweighs the "cool" factor for many. As I've said before the military is simply asking too much from service members now. The paycheck and benefits are nice, but when you are asked to basically give up your entire life for those things it no longer becomes worth it especially for those with families. I personally know tons of people who have agreed to take a pretty significant pay cut in order to transition to the airlines. These are 15 year veteran military aviators who are willing to give up a pension and take a big pay cut to go fly for a regional airline company because they have had enough of being worked to death by the US Army for the privilege of flying their choppers.

    It's a pretty big crisis going on right now that the DoD doesn't exactly know how to handle outside of just tossing bonus money at folks which isn't working anywhere near as well as they thought it would. It's not the money, it's the quality of life and time to actually have a life.
     
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  24. BuckyBadger

    BuckyBadger Well-Known Member

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    I can only imagine how bad things were under Obama as compared to Bush. Reagan and Bush were good to me and my outfits, that is for sure. When the enlisted needed new boots and gear, they got it. When we needed gas to fly, we got it. Training and tempo were at an all time high. Honestly, it was great to be in the military during this period. Things got much tighter under Bill (Clinton) and he didn't know his head from ass about foreign policy or what the military was all about.

    A good friend of mine flew F-4's then transferred over to the Eagles when they were being rolled out. He did just his initial deployment and said his real aim was never to be an Air Force pilot but to fly for an airline. He just couldn't pass up a free college education, free training to fly and experience. I could see that. For us, I was pretty happy. Enlisted, not sure how they did it. Those guys were worked to death.

    President Trump is dumping bigger amounts of the budget into the military right now. Are things getting any better? Or it a matter of playing catch up and all the new money is being slated for "guns".
     
  25. Nightmare515

    Nightmare515 Ragin' Cajun Staff Member Past Donor

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    It's a bit of playing catch up from the Obama sequestration era and it's also a matter of the Army trying to finally "humanize" the Army so to speak. It's no secret that the Army has always lagged behind the Navy and Air Force in regards to quality of life so in an effort to retain more Soldiers the Army is trying to improve things. I remember about a decade or so ago I saw some brand new barracks buildings springing up around posts which are a far cry from what I grew up in as a new Soldier. These new barracks aren't Air Force dorms by any means, but they are much better than the bunk beds, wall locker, and shower down the hall facilities of years past. It's a slow process but more barracks are being replaced with these new facilities. Chow hall food is being improved as well according to the Enlisted Soldiers. Command is also being directed to be more lenient with leave and pass policies also.

    Just little things like that the Army is trying to do to make the Army "suck less" and the Army is slowly getting rid of the things that are designed to suck just for the hell of it.

    That's the Enlisted side. For us aviators our issues stem from the age old thinking of "You get paid too much to JUST fly so we make you do all sorts of other stuff too". Our pilots spend the vast majority of their time doing things that have nothing to do with flying. Our junior aviators arrive from flight school expecting to fly then realize that "pilot" is actually a side gig instead of your primary job. They don't want to spend 80% of their time at a desk, they want to fly, so they do their initial contract and the jump ship more often than not. I have a desk job also but due to my position and experience I can fly more or less however much I choose. Our junior aviators don't have that luxury and by the time they get to where I am they have already said screw this.

    For those in my peer group our issues stem more from pure exhaustion. The pilot shortage is simply putting way more pressure on us to get things done with less. Couple that with wars that began on 9/11 and are still going it's gotten to the point of sacrificing way more than many folks should be reasonably expected to. It's not uncommon to meet folks with 3,4,5,6 combat deployments under their belts. Depending on the year when they deployed you're talking a total of anywhere from 3-10 total years spent in Iraq or Afghanistan or elsewhere away from family.

    It's becoming increasingly difficult for the Army and Congress to figure out how to retain aviators. Take a guy with 12 years of service for example. He's the mid career guy with experience who you want to keep around. He has a wife and children and he has spent 5 total years of his 12 year service in Iraq or Afghanistan. When he is home in the States he spends 4-6 months per year on TDY or at home in the field doing exercises and prepping for war. His contract is now up and you want to keep him around so you offer him a MASSIVE bonus (seriously, these bonuses are MASSIVE). He turns it down and says no I want to leave and he'd rather go fly for regional airlines and take a 50% pay cut instead. You aren't going to be able to keep that guy because you can't give him what he wants. He doesn't want your 6 figure bonus, he wants to have enough time to play with his children and see his wife. The Army simply cannot give him that with our never ending commitments and global requirements. So he leaves. And those of us left, who have the same history as him, have to now pick up the slack so we too get even more exhausted than we already are until we get too fed up and quit as well. A never ended cycle.

    The misconception from many on the outside is that things would slow down once these terrorism wars slowed down. That is false, we are still in Afghanistan and we still deploy just as often. Iraq has been replaced with going to Europe. We are not "home" any more now than we were during the troop surge in 09.

    Some of the increased budget is being used for improvements but I honestly don't think we need a budget increase. I think we need an audit. We have plenty of money but it is managed very poorly as has been for as long as I have been serving. It's a running gag around the office that if the Army was a civilian corporation then we would be Enron and I agree with that. We get bent over backwards by Defense contractors who charge $100 bucks for a bolt and washer and we allow it. We waste millions of dollars on unnecessary nonsense at the end of every fiscal year for fear of "not spending it all so they won't give us as much next year". Seriously, walk into any base's storage room and you'll see 100 executive computer chairs just sitting in there that the supply guy bought in September to blow the rest of the budget real quick.

    At the end of the day it's very simple. As I tell young Lieutenants or NCO's when they ask for advice about troublesome Soldiers. "Take their time away". That's what they actually care about. You want to punish the Private who is constantly late for work? Don't Article 15 him and take 1/2 months pay. Give him extra duty on Saturday and Sunday when he wants to be in his room playing video games. Taking his weekend away will upset him more than even taking half his money. He wants free time more than he wants money.

    It's the same concept overall. It's not the money we are craving or wanting, we get paid well enough and have great benefits. It's our TIME that we want, the Army has taken all of our time away from us and that is why folks are walking away in droves.
     
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