Jim Jordan calls this a pre-determined impeachment, tensions near boiling point

Most in the Political Establishment are crooks, liars thieves and traitors - and Trump certainly excels in that department.

This doesn't change the fact that "Whitewater" was a witch hunt and "Russiagate" was a witch hunt.

These political clown shows are not helping the nation. While precious time and treasure is wasted on frivolous things - real issues are not being addressed.

Our MSM has turned into National Enquirer news - and our judicial system into a third world kangaroo system.

 

He demanded they announce an investigation, not hold one. Trump likely plans to use the existence of an investigation against Biden.

IMO, Trump's stonewalling of Congress strikes at the heart of our system. We wanted a strong Executive Branch, not a king, and set up Congress as the check on the Presidency. Trump is threatening our very system of government. That's why he should go.

 

The liberal democratic government was under pressure from the communist left. Hitler rounded up support from industrialists to oppose them, and when he came to power he privatized a lot of businesses.

FDR won because Americans were going hungry and the system of private charity was overwhelmed by the depth of the depression.

 

High school and adults. Wikipedia is a reasonable starting point as a source for online discussions like these. Check the footnotes. Otherwise, we have a lot of unsupported claims.

 

Wikipedia isn't a "source". It uses its own sources (these tend to be credible), which is why you look at the footnotes.

 

Oops. I agree!

 

If "Russiagate" was a witch hunt, then witches exist.

 

So cite the specific source not the entire page... Duh

 

Of course they were under pressure. Everyone was well aware of what the Luxemburgs and Liebernichts wanted to bring to Germany. The terror had already ravaged Russia in a Civil War with 14 Million dead. The German's said no thanks.

You mean to tell me hunger wasn't greater in Germany by 1932 than it was in the US? Germany's situation was much worse. 30% umemployment compared to 25% in the US and this was all preceded by a decade of hyperinflation and the terrible post war conditions. Hitler won for many of the same reasons as FDR (Depression) and many of their solutions were the same as well (Socialism).

 

I tell you what. If Trump wins another term then this nation deserves everything coming to it for electing this bottom feeding snake. I hope America rejects this leech but parts of America did vote the SOB into office. There is no depth to the depravity some will reach in pursuit of their idiotic goals. I remain hopeful but cautious. America never ceases to prove just how low we can go. Exceptional? I don't think so. Not anymore.

 

Well, you can build your case around what you think Germans knew about the Soviet Union, but we do know German industrialists supported Hitler. We also know Hitler never collectivized production.

I made no claim about who was more hungry.

No, the solutions were different, especially the politics, but they did include additional government spending, not surprising given the world wide depression.

 

The world knew quite well about the evils of Bolshevism at this time.

Do you believe in collectivism?? Please tell me your not in the "just a few more million dead and it would have worked" Hobsbawm camp.

 

So you say. There's evidence to the contrary.

Yes, in the family unit. Otherwise, my support is limited. I wouldn't want to privatize the military.

Commies, commies everywhere.

 

Now you have moved the goalposts a bit. The legality of Trump's actions w/r to the phone conversations - and stonewalling congress are two different things ... albeit connected.

The President has the right to stonewall congress to some degree - as many past Presidents have done.

What was the nature of the crime that meets a high bar ? - Is stonewalling congress over this crime some huge national security issue ? - if not then what level is it ? - where is that bar - define por favor.

Trump asked for an investigation - or the announcement of such - perhaps thinking that this would lead to a US investigation.

And why not ? - pretend this was some other citizen benefiting from a political high office - would it not be the Presidents Obligation to out such a crime ?

Intent is not an easy thing to prove. All one has to do is come up with a legitimate alternative.

OK - BAR - "High Crimes"

Using Political position to encourage dirt to be exposed on a political rival. Guilty !! - does this meet the Bar ?

I would say it is a crime of sorts - but is it a "High Crime". - at minimum it is debatable.

Thing is - we do not have a Guilty !! verdict. .. and will likely never get one.

Now what is the weight of the accusation - ? Trump is accused of having nefarious thoughts .. and I for one firmly believe he had them - Guilty !! ..

But this is not about what I think ... this is about what has been proven in a court of law.. and sorry - Dem Congress doesn't count as the jury.

 

Say something - not nothing Define Witch Hunt !?

Clinton - How was the # of inches of cigar that Slick Willy inserted into Monica's oval orifice - relevant to White Water ?

It is generally agreed that the above was a witch hunt.

Trump - How was 10 yr old tax records of Manifort - relevant to whether Trump was involved in hacking the DNC ?
You can go through the various other actions of Mueller - which violated the scope.

The fact that it was Mueller running the show to begin with - a dude with serious lack of integrity and honor issues - a demonstrable track record of dirty deeds. An Establishment owned puppet.

Did Russia Meddle ? that question has many answers.
Was Trump involved - nope - He wasn't involved in the Hack - he didn't finance the facebook ads.

Oh - but he may have known about information. OK - so what - the guy was not President - what political operative does not want dirt on some candidate to come out.

Sort out the crime for me here ? - and then tell me whether or not this was a witch hunt ?

 

Link please.

 

Nixon's articles of impeachment were not that he broke into Watergate nor that he ordered it, no, his impending impeachment was for using the office of the president to hinder investigations and prosecutions of those that did.
I agree with Jim Jordan assessment of this as a pre-determined impeachment and will be a pre-determined trial in the Senate because our Republican representatives have publicly made it clear that they are abdicating their responsibility of oversight of the president. The Senators are particularly a disappointment. Who ever heard of soon to be jury members meeting with the accused to discuss a strategy for the trial and declaring innocence before the trial? Shameful.
When Reagan committed treason in the Iran-Contra Affair he admitted his mistakes and apologized to the nation and his apology was accepted.
Nixon used his power for his personal interests and denied wrongdoing and would have likely been impeached and ousted.
Clinton lied about a consensual extramarital affair and relied on the good sense of the Senate to not fault the man for something every single one of them would have done under the same circumstances.
Trump stands accused of using his power for his personal interests and then blocking investigations of the abuses. I'm not ready to count out the Senate, some of them must see their responsibilities and give Trump a fair trial.

 

I explain it with this


Poll: Most Americans Don’t Want the Impeachment and Removal of Trump

A Quinnipiac University poll released Tuesday shows that a majority of voters oppose impeaching and removing President Donald Trump from office.

https://www.conservativedailynews.c...nt-want-the-impeachment-and-removal-of-trump/

 

Trump will remain in office and thanks to this bogus impeachment, will be re elected

 

Both are impeachable offences.

Trump is refusing subpoenas generally.

Trump's stonewalling isn't limited to this issue.

He can ask the DoJ to investigate.

Trump wanted Zelensky to announce an investigation into Biden. It wasn't enough to quietly investigate because Trump wouldn't be able to weaponize the existence of an investigation in the media.

He violated the law by asking a foreign leader to help him in the 2020 election.

Unless something new comes out, it's highly unlikely Trump will be convicted. But that doesn't mean Trump shouldn't be impeached.

Trump requested/pressured Zelensky to announce an investigation into Joe Biden, a political rival for the 2020 Presidency.

I'm afraid not. The Senate is the jury.

The House is more akin to a prosector.

 

FiveThirtyEight is a poll of polls.

 

Impeachment hurt the Republicans in 1976 and Democrats in 2000.

 

Believe whatever you choose, polls dont matter, the day after election day matters.

 

So, if what voters think today doesn't matter, why are political types watching the polls?

 

Post was way too parsed out to respond to in general but - we can start and finish with your first claim.

The whole debate is about whether or not the offences are impeachable - and I got into some details - definitions needed and terms defined such as where the bar is.

You then step on to the debate stage and claim "Guilty" but offer no substantiation for this claim - no coherent definition of what bar you are using.

You are being dogmatic.