Iran fires rockets at Iraq base hosting American troops

No, they do not have PATRIOT missiles in Iraq. As I said, we have not had them in Iraq since 2004. The most we have in theater there is SHORAD and AVENGER. But please, feel free to tell me what unit is in Iraq.

In fact, the closest PATRIOT units are the 2 Batteries in Kuwait. There are another 2 Batteries in Qatar, defending Al-Udeid Air Base. And the recently activated Qatar PATRIOT Battalion, which is primarily situated to protect their capitol of Doha.

But in Iraq? Nope, none. But please, feel free to prove me wrong by informing us how many launchers are there, and what unit it is.

 

I trust the sources I have read on this issue more than I trust you. But it doesn't matter. The Patriot would not be able to shoot down Iran's missiles anyway.

 

Then please give us this information.

And yes, PATRIOT could easily shoot down Iranian missiles.

And as an FYI, Air Defense is actually my military specialty. Shall I discuss with you the Ballistic Missile Operating Area of the Shahab-3,and their known launching locations a few hundred kilometers inland from the Persian Gulf? And with their CEP of around 140 meters, they are not a real serious threat other than to an area the size of an actual military base?

Or maybe I should discuss the Soumar class of air launched cruise missiles? Essentially a copy of the old Soviet Kh-55. Or how about the new class that Iran has claimed to have in their possession. A ground launched variant called the Hoveyzeh. Once again, a Kh-55 clone.

Or we can discuss the Fatah-110. A SRBM, 400KM range, CEP of 100 meters.

Or the Qiam 1, based on a North Korean version of the venerable SCUD-C. 800KM range, CEP of 50 meters.

Oh, I can talk about Iranian missiles all day long, trust me.

You see, this is the apparent difference between you and I. I can give actual factual data, and figures. You talk about phantom sources, with absolutely no verification other than yourself.

And yes, I spent over a year just outside of Doha, specifically watching Iranian airspace for threats in a PATRIOT Battalion.

Oh, and the missiles used in the attack? It was a mixture of the Fatah-110 and Qiam 1 missiles. And shooting down SCUD missiles is child's play. We have been doing that since 1990.

But please, feel free to come back and play again when you can actually give out some information I can respond to instead of a propaganda bullet point. But it is already obvious that I know a lot more about Iranian missiles than you do.

 

I am not in the mood right now. But I will say this: anyone who confuses a Fateh 110 missile with a Scud isn't worth my time, regardless of their claimed 'expertise'.

 

And exactly where did I say the Fateh-110 was a copy of the SCUD?

I know for a fact I specifically said the Qiam 1 was a copy of the SCUD. Specifically the SCUD-C. And if you want to be technically, it is a domestically made copy of the Hweason-6. Which is a North Korean copy of the SCUD-C.

But hey, thanks to the magic of quote, I can even bring back exactly what I said:

Yep, I never said the Fateh-110 was a copy of the SCUD.

Wow, big time fail there on your part. In fact, look at your own quote of what I said and you will see I said nothing even close to that.

When you fail, you really fail I see. Now about your references...

 

I am waiting for your references first I usually give sources for what I say, but on the issue of US having Patriot missile batteries in Iraq (but not around Al Asad air base) I would have to waste a lot of time to find the reports I had read on it.

You had mentioned the patriot shooting down Scuds (with far less success than advertised) right after talking about the Fateh 110 missile, which has nothing to do with a Scud. See quote from you on the issue below:

And while a few of the missiles fired against the US bases were Qiam 1 also, those were fired mostly for show. The Qiam 1 carries a good sized warhead but, unlike the Fateh-110, isn't as precise nor is it a solid fuel missile. (Unless they have been fitted with Iran's new 'conversion kit' which can even transform unguided rockets into precise missiles).

 

Incidentally, the CEP of the Fateh 110 is definitely under 10 meters. Whatever you have 'read' on this issue is worthless and wrong.

 

Sorry, that is not how it goes. You made the claim, you have to verify and validate that claim. ANd intersting you say you usually do, but this time you apparently can not be bothred to do so.

And good luck finding any reports showing that.

And BTW, maybe this will help. 1-43 ADA was the last unit to return from Qatar-Kuwait. The unit there at this time is 2-43. Currently assigned to the 31st Air Defense Brigade. And I keep in constant contact with many people at Fort Bliss. There have been no units moved from there to SWA. Not 5-52, not 1-43 (which is still in a reset cycle), and not 3-43. So exactly what PATRIOT unit is there?

Was one for some reason pulled from South Korea, Japan, or Germany and sent there? Funny, I have looked in the news, and that has not happened.

You see, this is the danger here when you make claims you can not back up. You may run across what is known as a "Subject Matter Expert". I was invited to jump in here, because in the military threads (which you amazingly do not seem to inhabit), I am known as the "Subject Matter Expert" on things relating to missiles and missile defenses.

I give a lot of specifics, all you do is backpeddle and say you can not be bothered to verify your claims. And now I say it clearly. Either back up your claims, or admit you are making them up or lying.

Of course, I expect you to do neither. I expect you to once again simply try to make some nonsense claim (like I said the Fateh-110 was a SCUD), and make people believe it just because you say so.

Last chance, put up or shut up. Prove your claims, admit you are making it up, or just keep on trying to squirm your way out by being dishonest and blaming me because you can not back up what you say.

The choice is yours, this is where I determine if you are even worth engaging in a discussion with, or you are simply full of coprolite and can therefore be ignored.

And BTW, the fact I remain almost entirely in the military section and avoid the political ones (unless called upon) should be telling in and of itself. I hate politics, and could not care less about it. I deal only in facts. And the typical political nonsense of avoiding discussing facts only earns my disdain.

But you are the one that made those claims, I am challenging you to prove them.

 

OMG, did you even know what a CEP was before I mentioned it?

And actually, I was being rather generous at giving it a CEP of 100 meters. Most sources actually give it a much worse CEP.

And for those that do not know, a CEP is Circular Error Probable. In essence, the accuracy. Amateurs talk accuracy, professionals discuss CEP. But here are some references discussing the CEP of the Fateh 110.

https://missilethreat.csis.org/missile/fateh-110/#easy-footnote-bottom-12-325

https://missiledefenseadvocacy.org/...eration/todays-missile-threat/iran/fateh-110/

https://www.armyrecognition.com/ira...r_ballistic_missile_technical_data_sheet.html

https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/irans-has-most-ballistic-missiles-middle-east-62137

https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/iransource/iran-s-ballistic-missile-inventory/

You see, those are known as "References". Can you say "References"? I knew you could.

Yes, I was actually being generous, by listing the smallest CEP. And there are 5 different references, which all range from 100 to 250 meters. And you now claim under 10?

Verifyable references that can be validated to confirm that claim?

Not that I expect any. You seem to have a phobia about verifying anything you say.

 

And just so it can not be said I was cherry picking reports I liked, here is one I threw out. And it is not even a US one, it is a Czech reference that gives it a much larger CEP.

https://css.ethz.ch/en/services/dig...html/4120e558-bfea-49fe-a918-922bd7ea39a1/pdf

 

I had mentioned waiting for references regarding a different issue (Patriot missiles not being anywhere in Iraq), not the CEP of the Fateh 110 as I know the sources you would have read on that issue. I said the sources you have read on the issue are 'wrong and worthless'. Iran has already proven that: In using a version of the missile, called the Khalij Fars used for land to sea operations, to hit naval targets accurately in various drills. in its missile strike using the Fateh 110 against the headquarters of a Kurdish group in Iraq, hitting its target with absolute precision. And in the attack against the Al Asad air base in Iraq.

The propaganda on the issue is meeting hardcore realities and shifting as a result. Although old habits die hard!

https://www.economist.com/science-a...n-iraq-shows-how-precise-missiles-have-become

You can read, separately, regarding the conversion kits Iran has developed for its other missiles, included previously rather crude ones such as Qiam 1 here. A lot of propaganda in all these accounts, but you will get the gist.

 

A single reference, behind a pay wall?

So let's see. Your single reference I can not even read, is more valuable than the 6 I listed? Got it.

And yea, your second reference discusses no actual data. Just the claim Iran released an upgrade that improves missiles. Rather generic and bland, no actual data.

 

With regard to Iran's missiles, I am trying to educate you on a subject which I understand you would have been misinformed about. The precision of Iran's missiles aren't theory; they are proven facts. The previous 'estimates' by experts on the subject in the US (with no actual knowledge about the issue) is not relevant anymore. They stopped being relevant once Iran proved the accuracy of the Fateh 110 in a couple of strikes even before it hit the US bases in Iraq, including the one below. For this guy, whose father was killed as a result of such a strike, and others who have been at the receiving end of strikes by the Fateh 110, or those who observed Iranian drills using a variant of the missile to hit naval targets far away, the issue is clear already. Giving sources which rely on "past estimates" by folks who have no clue won't change those facts.
https://besacenter.org/perspectives-papers/iran-missile-strike-kurdistan/
The Messages Behind the Iranian Missile Strike in Iraqi Kurdistan

 

When you get in the mood, run it by Mushroom.

 

Mushroom appears to be more knowledgeable than you are regarding the 3rd world missiles in Iran.

 

I notice I still have not had an apology for his claim I was lying about calling a missile a SCUD.

I am rather glad I was called into this discussion. After all, it is regarding my profession, and I imagine it is rather obvious which of us at least knows what they are talking about, and which is full of coprolite.

And I have seen idiots like this before. There are a couple of Sinophiles that pop up on occasion in the Military threads here. But rarely do they stick around for long, and most make threads like this that we all simply laugh at because they are as full of nonsense as this one is.

And I have studied and worked against all kinds of missiles. From US made SCUD to many others. And I am laughing at the very idea that Iranian missiles can not be shot down. What, do they put a magical veil over them before their taking off, so the intercepting US missiles refuse to engage them in carnal knowledge so refuse to "hit them"?

And I actually could not care less what IM does,I am actually not posting to him. He is nothing but a propaganda pawn, and is of no real value other than comic relief. I am posting for those who might read what he says, and think he is being honest and truthful. I am simply showing to the world that the Emperor has no clothes, and that the person behind the curtain is not who he says he is.

And so long as he keeps posting such nonsense, I will continue to demand references to have him prove it, and provide multiple references every time I bust his nonsensical claims.

 

Yes your chancellor is aligning you country once again with Russia, how'd that work out the last time. I visited both sides of the Berlin wall right after it came down, if you Germans want to go back to that go ahead but don't look for us to bail you out again.

 

It worked great. At a time Russia even had a german empress. Katharina the Great.

I know you are from a country without history. My school building actually is 150 years older than your nation.

There cant be peace in Europe when Germany and Russia dont play at same side. Keep in mind the hostilities between Germany and Russia which started in WW I and II were also fired up by UK and USA.

Its an american core goal to keep Germany and Russia apart.

Sorry but we dont want play this game anymore. Since US global influence shrinks, so change power levels.

Look, all this can be broken down to a very basic aspect. Nations ahve iterests, not friends.

And USA doesnt have the power and influence anymore to achieve our interests. So you see a division of the German-American alliance.

Btw France is even more pushing for that

 

Hey go ahead and engage in the folly of aligning yourself with Putin and the Ayatollahs but don't look to bail you out.

 

Look, your country is on the way out. This has nothing to do with Putin or the Ayatollah. We live in changing times. USA as superpower dies as its international influence shrinks on dramatic scales.

New powers emerge, former power balaces shift.

Why you believe your biggest former allied nations leave you?

France makes new alliances with Russia and focus on its tandem with Germany.

Germany looks to Russia and seeks distance to USA.

In middle east USA lost on all fronts. Its "arab spring" plan failed miserable.

China as emerging power takes the US role in the pacific region.

USA economic power on the globe did shrink by 60% within last 30 years because EU and China rising.



Maybe try to see it from our point of view. Our alliance exists since 70 years. In last 15 years we only see you losing on all fronts and it speeds up dramatical.

We are unsure how things develop. Its like a great ship thats sinking. We feel something is wrong but we are uncertain what exactly is going on. We are not as bold as the french who jumped in the lifeboat much earlier. We have one foot already in the lifeboat and worry if we should dare to make that step. But we know if we cling to long, the USA might take us down with it.

So we do it.

 

I am not interested in getting involved in personal arguments.
...
Iranian missiles had already shown both precision and potency in previous firings, both in drills and in actions against some anti-Iranian groups. Now, they made their point against US bases in Iraq. The point was enough to force Trump and the big mouths around him to stand down, while claiming it was Iran that had stood down.

The spin and propaganda doesn't matter: what matters is that the US received the message intended by Iran's strikes. The actual revenge for General Soleimani's assassination, as Iran has mentioned on many occasions, will come in a different form. But even the CIA mouthpiece, the Stratfor group, has begun adjusting some of the old propaganda.

https://nationalinterest.org/blog/b...n-bases-showcases-its-weapons-accuracy-114616
How Iran's Missile Attack on American Bases Showcases Its Weapons' Accuracy

 

Actually you do. And this is why you continue to fail.

You see, I do not argue. I debate. And a key part of debate is being able to prove your points. You have made a great many claims, and have yet to back up any of them. And on occasion you cherry pick a reference, and attempt to validate part of your claim, but then insist you can not be bothered to validate anything else you claim.

I am not insulting you, I am simply asking you to back up your claims with facts. Something you have been completely unable to do. And there is a simple word for somebody who makes claims and is then unable to confirm anything they claim. And that is a liar.

Want to prove me wrong? I will gladly retract that statement, simply prove to me all these silly and nonsensical claims you keep making.

BTW, how is the Qaher-313 doing?

 

Even with knowledge that they were going to be hit, the US was not able to do a thing against them so called 3rd world missiles.

 

Sure they can, if they have something in place to shoot them down.

Average flight time from launch to detonation is in the range of 10-20 minutes. And all of our RADAR in the region is linked, so we know within a minute that something was launched, from where, and where it is going to land.

It is simply a matter of geometry. And do we have anything under the flight path that can take it out.

 

lol... US bases in Iraq do not got any defense, hence rockets just can drop on them.

Iran gave a heads up. And still... nothing that was able to stop this.

It is simple geometry. Yet even Israel fails to take them flimsy Hamas and Hezbollah slow moving missiles out. That is as good as it gets. Iran's missiles are far more sophisticated than that.