How Should We Respond to Foreign Attempts at Sowing Discord and Violence

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Meta777, Oct 14, 2018.

  1. liberalminority

    liberalminority Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2010
    Messages:
    25,273
    Likes Received:
    1,633
    Trophy Points:
    113
    specifically we should allow citizens to express themselves, those who do not comply with the rule of law will be swiftly and harshly punished.

    capitalists, second amendment people, and republicans are not mobilising militias for insurrection, because they have won politically with President Trump.

    communists who plot evil may soon be subjected to enhanced interrogation techniques by the CIA.
     
  2. JakeStarkey

    JakeStarkey Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2016
    Messages:
    25,747
    Likes Received:
    9,526
    Trophy Points:
    113
    most of the politically minded violence in the USA has overwhelmingly by rightwingers, liberalminority

    the patriot act is used primarily for the overwhelming violent acts, primarily by rightwingers
     
  3. liberalminority

    liberalminority Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2010
    Messages:
    25,273
    Likes Received:
    1,633
    Trophy Points:
    113
    politically motivated violence is objective, but generally the political losers become radicalised.

    in this time it is the left, when obama was president it was the right.
     
  4. JakeStarkey

    JakeStarkey Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2016
    Messages:
    25,747
    Likes Received:
    9,526
    Trophy Points:
    113
    That, man, is, well, just your opinion.
     
  5. liberalminority

    liberalminority Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2010
    Messages:
    25,273
    Likes Received:
    1,633
    Trophy Points:
    113
    i apologise for my opinion
     
  6. JakeStarkey

    JakeStarkey Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2016
    Messages:
    25,747
    Likes Received:
    9,526
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Don't apologize for an opinion. I am just nothing its nature is all.
     
  7. Eleuthera

    Eleuthera Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2015
    Messages:
    22,802
    Likes Received:
    11,809
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Are you saying that because of the way they treat the Palestinians, the Israelis are socialists and communists? If so, I think you're way off base.
     
  8. ButterBalls

    ButterBalls Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2016
    Messages:
    51,532
    Likes Received:
    37,905
    Trophy Points:
    113
    People need to understand the, We do it, and they do and the key to it not working or being effective is to teach people that #VoteHillary is not a valid way to vote.. The problem with SOME American is they are easily fooled, I'll let you decide which ones LMAO :)
     
  9. PPark66

    PPark66 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2018
    Messages:
    3,416
    Likes Received:
    2,314
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Regulate internet advertising as we do in our broadcast media.

    As for foreign trolling, sanction the governments that interfere. We’ll need to tighten our banking system and get serious about money laundering for that to be effective.

    On the latter, especially in politics, a thorough in-House cleansing is required. Our campaign finance system is about as corrupt as it gets. It’s designed to foster corruption and we’re well past the point of relying on the character of our “internal” political actors.
     
  10. Longshot

    Longshot Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2011
    Messages:
    18,068
    Likes Received:
    2,644
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Ignore them then.
     
    ButterBalls likes this.
  11. liberalminority

    liberalminority Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2010
    Messages:
    25,273
    Likes Received:
    1,633
    Trophy Points:
    113
    no this topic appears to be above my pay grade, i will defer to the President's official tweet for those who incite politically motivated violence.

     
    Eleuthera likes this.
  12. Meta777

    Meta777 Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2011
    Messages:
    15,633
    Likes Received:
    1,736
    Trophy Points:
    113
    There's a lot we can do beyond mere words that don't involve resorting to violence.
    Maybe some of those things will work, maybe they wont... all I'm saying is that unless Russia starts firing on us,
    it makes sense to at least give some of those other options a shot before we go and start shooting up others ourselves.

    For instance, right now we have a whole bunch of directed sanctions placed upon certain individuals and businesses within Russia, but I believe there may be a good deal more we can do in that respect, particularly if we work closely with other countries to enact them. So perhaps its time we started turning up the heat on the foreign bad actors with yet even more and even harsher sanctions.

    You mentioned Assad, and coincidentally, from what I know of the situation, his regime happens to be one which has been propped up and supported by Russia even amidst all the killing. Because of that support, sanctions on a person like Assad and his violent enterprise probably wouldn't be that effective. But who would be the one to support Russia once their country starts to go bankrupt? The Russian government may like to have others believe that they're one of the most powerful nations on the planet, but in my opinion, in reality they may be a whole lot weaker than anybody thinks, which is probably why they resort so much to subversion. They're weak! They have a lot of bombs, a good few tanks, and more money and resources than a small country like Syria, but when it comes to the big players on the global stage, both financially and structurally speaking they may as well have nothing for all the influence it affords them. They're being propped up themselves by oil at the moment, but even that is running out and at the same time their customer countries are starting to turn more elsewhere for their oil needs. So they're scared. Afraid that what little power they have left is dissipating, that their own people may turn on them eventually (more-so than they already have, a likely reason for their general anti-democratic stances) and the Russian government is too inept to figure out any good ways to strengthen themselves by other means, so they turn instead to subversion and even direct violence to attempt to get what they want. i.e. they try to drag other countries down rather than build themselves up.

    So since they seem to be so driven by fear of losing power and influence, let's make it unequivocally known to them that unless they cease all their bs that we as a country, along with our allies, are going to severely hamstring them financially to ensure that they lose it even more rapidly and more completely. Perhaps that will scare them into stopping. There's no guarantee of it of course, but again, if we're seriously considering firing off missiles into the Kremlin, exhausting all options sanction-wise must be something we try before things come to that.

    -Meta
     
  13. Meta777

    Meta777 Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2011
    Messages:
    15,633
    Likes Received:
    1,736
    Trophy Points:
    113
    So... are you saying that people should stop speaking critically of politicians?
    That politicians should not speak critically of one another or of the people?
    That not even policy should be discussed unless in an election year?

    Please correct me if I'm not understanding it right... also I'm a little confused on the last bit.
    How is expressing grievances any different than political criticism?
    Or is it less about whether or not/when those various political opinions are made known,
    and perhaps more about how they're made known?...

    -Meta
     
    JakeStarkey likes this.
  14. Meta777

    Meta777 Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2011
    Messages:
    15,633
    Likes Received:
    1,736
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Again, what should we do if Russia or another foreign government tries to pull what Russia tried to pull in France and Montenegro? How should we respond to such actions? What kinds of preventative measures can we take and what can we do to ensure things do not explode into wide-scale violence as a result?

    -Meta
     
    JakeStarkey likes this.
  15. Thehumankind

    Thehumankind Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2013
    Messages:
    4,478
    Likes Received:
    342
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Gender:
    Male
    The people can of course criticize but the allegiance should be there to make the leadership still effective, I believe that any leader of the country is and was properly chosen, we have the debates, the primaries, and the main election itself to choose, there is no suppression of the rights to vote whatsoever. As a citizen if my favored candidate does not win then I should cede in favor of the majority who voted for the victor, because no matter what I do he is already the leader and he is mandated to steer me and the rest for the betterment of everyone.

    There is already checks and balance at work where the judiciary, legislative , and the executive is keeping watch with each others performance, they are all already regulated as per the constitution and laws of the land. For policy making the congress will always be there to deliberate it and even could overturn an executive order,the justice department could also take part if it requires legal tendencies. No need for politicians bickering each other and with the people or vice versa, we only need to choose the right people and let the system work.

    Political criticism is quite different with grievances, for most of the time political criticism are politically motivated while grievances are real matters that needs redress.
     
  16. Meta777

    Meta777 Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2011
    Messages:
    15,633
    Likes Received:
    1,736
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Express themselves how exactly? Aren't people already allowed free expression today?

    Again, what change are you suggesting from the way we currently do things?

    So... is your suggestion then for us to bring back torture??

    -Meta
     
  17. Meta777

    Meta777 Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2011
    Messages:
    15,633
    Likes Received:
    1,736
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I think it would be better to not point fingers at one another and focus instead on coming up with solutions to the issue that can be universally applied as opposed to selectively enforced based off of ones political affiliation. Nothing good will come about from blaming entire groups for the actions of a few after-all. And keep in mind, that getting us to hate our neighbors and to be at each-other's throats, is exactly what certain malicious foreign influences are hoping for...; try not to play right into their hands by painting with too wide a brush...

    -Meta
     
  18. Meta777

    Meta777 Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2011
    Messages:
    15,633
    Likes Received:
    1,736
    Trophy Points:
    113
    What do you mean?

    What exactly are you saying here? Please explain.
    Are you suggesting that the solution to foreign actors trying to sow violence is
    for people to stop voting for politicians that you personally disagree with??
    Or are you saying people shouldn't use hashtags??? Please clarify...

    Does it really matter which ones? Again, what I'm interested in here are solutions, not finger pointing.

    -Meta
     
  19. ibshambat

    ibshambat Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2015
    Messages:
    2,690
    Likes Received:
    345
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Sometimes people ask me if I am a Russian spy. What kind of a question is that? If I were a Russian spy, would I tell them?
     
    Eleuthera likes this.
  20. Meta777

    Meta777 Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2011
    Messages:
    15,633
    Likes Received:
    1,736
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I actually think ideas like these could have a pretty big impact and go a long ways towards improving things.
    The details on the regulations would have to be worked out though, we'd want to ensure that they weren't overdone,
    and basing them off of the existing regulations we have for broadcast media is probably a good way to handle that.

    Agree with the sanctions as well. Hit 'em in the pocketbook!
    I'll definitely make sure to include these in the list latter.

    This is another really good point, and one I don't think has been discussed at all in this thread yet.
    We'd be a lot less susceptible to certain kinds of foreign influence if we had better ways of dealing with corruption in our own system.
    Any ideas in particular on what we could do to clean house?

    -Meta
     
  21. Eleuthera

    Eleuthera Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2015
    Messages:
    22,802
    Likes Received:
    11,809
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Yes, I've been accused of working for the Kremlin, simply because I point out the belligerent behavior of NATO and the US. It's rather like being called anti-Semitic if one points out the criminal behavior of the Israeli government. Both labels suggest the person using them has no argument to stand on.
     
  22. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2009
    Messages:
    38,302
    Likes Received:
    14,768
    Trophy Points:
    113
    How Should We Respond to Foreign Attempts at Sowing Discord and Violence.

    We should ignore them.
     
    Longshot likes this.
  23. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2009
    Messages:
    38,302
    Likes Received:
    14,768
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Another person with prescience. Where can I get one of those crystal balls?
     
  24. Eleuthera

    Eleuthera Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2015
    Messages:
    22,802
    Likes Received:
    11,809
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Or, we should institutionalize them with organizations such as AIPAC, which has been eminently successful.
     
  25. JakeStarkey

    JakeStarkey Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2016
    Messages:
    25,747
    Likes Received:
    9,526
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Adhere to the rule of law.
     

Share This Page