Household debt jumps the most in 12 years, Federal Reserve report says

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by cd8ed, Feb 11, 2020.

  1. FlamingLib

    FlamingLib Well-Known Member

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    Sore losers do. Most people just want a fair shot, and they're not getting it. Why do you think we have Trump? He's a Frankenstein monster both parties created. Disaffected unemployed rust belt Democrats wanted to throw a hand grenade into the system. Disaffected whites who have seen their communities undergo sweeping demographic changes in a very short time wanted to throw that same grenade.

    The problem for the latter is you can't fight demographic changes. Well, you can, but we're not evil enough to do anything that will stop those changes. In the case of unemployed people, government CAN create policies that can help workers who have lost their jobs to free trade or automation.
     
  2. Polydectes

    Polydectes Well-Known Member

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    I'm not sure it's similar levels.
    Yes because it will be yet another burden on the middle class for the cost. it's easy to say how little it will cost when you're spending someone else's money.
    and at the point where it becomes more burdensome to be middle class then to be in poverty because the government is taking 90% of what you make there will be nothing left and socialism will decay and do famine a genocide that's why that always seems to happen. When the people you use say I will be used to no longer your great society is over.

    It will be more sustainable to figure out how to afford your own medical Care.
     
  3. cd8ed

    cd8ed Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You are correct! We receive a lower standard of care in numerous areas.

    If a family making 75k a year has a 7k a year premium (close to average) and a 5k deductible (slightly below average) they could have their overall taxes increased 10% - 15% before they would notice the difference. Seeing that even the highest estimates don’t show the need of that level of increase for a public option on the middle class I will have to disagree with your opinion.

    Fear mongering and propaganda. Try again

    I have great healthcare coverage, thanks for your concern. I believe other Americans should as well.
     
  4. gnoib

    gnoib Well-Known Member

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    European Nations offer the same level and better level of health care for 1/3 of the cost.
    What would you say to a 100% plan, no deductible for less than $300, that's my German insurance, my US insurance would be $1600 a month, with a $6300 deductible, self employed in the US.
    Cost 15% income tax, which does not go into the big pot, but straight to my provider.
     
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  5. Talon

    Talon Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    That's pure unadulterated bullshit, and it's the same pure unadulterated bullshit that used to roll off of Obama's self-serving, grievance-mongering "progressive" tongue.

    Immigrants - including my own ancestors - continue to flock to this country precisely because they DO have a fair shot in America to make a better life for themselves.

    Disaffected unemployed rust belt Democrats blew-off Democrats because Democrats blew them off. Democrats no longer look after their interests and that's why they voted for Trump.

    Demographic changes have absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with that. It's a bullshit narrative fabricated by Democrats to "explain" why they lost those people's votes.
     
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  6. Polydectes

    Polydectes Well-Known Member

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    I doubt that claim.
    you can opt out of paying for insurance you can't opt out of taxes. So really a middle class person can pay $0 a year. $0 a year is less than 15 % tax increase.

    Then why don't you buy it for them? No no no you want to be generous with everyone else's money.

    So you don't really believe other Americans should as well because if you did you would buy it for them. You believe everyone else should pay.
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2020
  7. Polydectes

    Polydectes Well-Known Member

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    yes I know everyone else insists on this. I am skeptical that it's better. The only metric people give is European nations satisfaction with their free ****.
    how much do you pay in taxes, if you don't pay in taxes how much do people who work pay in Taxes. I'm sure you're satisfied with someone else's gift.
    you could just not buy insurance and you pay for treatment as you need it. Then your insurance costs are $0 a month.
    so this money is taken from you at gunpoint sounds like a shity deal to me. I'd brought you the freedom to opt out and not pay a penny.
     
  8. Texas Republican

    Texas Republican Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    With the Trump economy, I'm paying off my debt.
     
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  9. cd8ed

    cd8ed Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Because you cannot follow sources or investigate the issue yourself.

    What do you believe happens when these families with no insurance have a medical emergency?
    Everyone already pays for them at a much inflated rate, possibly have to file bankruptcy leading to a further costs for society.
    But we should ignore all that, right?

    I believe in improving the system. If you have another program that could do the same feel free to post it.
     
  10. Polydectes

    Polydectes Well-Known Member

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    Military entitlements for the defense industry? What the hell does that mean?

    Paying people for their service is paying people for their service giving people free medical care and they just don't work that's an entitlement.

    You are entitled to compensation for the work you provide or the goods you provide. So military entitlements is some nonsense you just pulled out of your ass.
     
  11. Polydectes

    Polydectes Well-Known Member

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    It is not my burden to investigate your ******n claims. It is your burden to prove them.
    they go to a county hospital I just never pay the bill.
    so because they refused to pay for the services they received we should pay for it adjust entitle them to it. Sounds like a recipe for disaster.
    I have the absolute most perfect system. No Government funding no insurance you just pay for services rendered. Capitalism and meritocracy. Puffs the government zero in fact they actually make money because businesses that make money will boost the economy which brings more money into the government.

    Giving everyone free s*** at the expense of the middle class seems profoundly stupid to me.
     
  12. FlamingLib

    FlamingLib Well-Known Member

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    I think you mean "fairer" shot. Immigrants face significant hurdles, the primary one being obvious: Americans prefer Americans. Duh. Any immigrant has the deck stacked against them just by virtue of being an immigrant.

    If you think the playing field is level here, for Americans, you're also out of your mind. Look at the guy you support. You think he'd be where he is if he hadn't had a super-rich daddy? I don't. You think OJ the bus driver would have beaten that murder rap with his public defender? Lol.

    Don't get me wrong: our system gives immigrants extremely good chances to live a better life. But there's no way on Earth the average immigrant is going to have the same advantages as the average American.

    Yeah, that's a big problem with the party. It remains a big problem.

    "On his top-rated Fox News show Tuesday night, conservative pundit Tucker Carlson opined on demographic change and immigration in America, saying that though “most immigrants are nice ... this is more change than human beings are designed to digest,” and asking viewers, “How would you feel if that happened in your neighborhood?
    https://www.vox.com/2018/3/21/17146866/tucker-carlson-demographics-immigration-fox-news

    Care to take that one back?
     
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  13. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    That's what I'm not following. I have further to go (for all things), but manage without any 'Amazon' type service.
     
  14. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    Absolute BS. Asian immigrants (and their children) have been ahead of whites in America for a few years now.
     
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  15. cd8ed

    cd8ed Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Hard to do when you won’t open your eyes and actually read fact

    Who pays for a count hospital when they cannot? Free money?

    We already do in the most expensive and cost inefficient way possible.

    That seems like a great fantasy!

    What happens when a poor family cannot afford treatment for their child?
    Or an elderly person falls and cannot afford treatment?
    Or a family missed an insurance payment on accident so their policy was revoked and a major accident happens?
    Or someone with a pre-existing condition becomes ill and isn’t covered?

    Or the billions of other examples that happen every day?
     
  16. Polydectes

    Polydectes Well-Known Member

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    just because something affirms what you believe doesn't make it a fact. I read the links you posted they aren't enough. I have questions that you can't answer because you don't know so you don't know that they're fact.

    I think you're emotionally invested in this therefore you lack the rationale to have this discussion.

    So you can keep barking at me with your insistence and I will keep telling you I don't believe you.
     
  17. cd8ed

    cd8ed Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I asked how many additional sources you needed — you failed to respond.

    Is that the reason I am cussing at you and telling you to “just leave” after ignoring the information you just provided? And ignoring questions that poke holes in your narrative? And posting personal attacks? Oh, wait — that was you...

    Guess what, I don’t care what you believe, I have dealt with you too often to believe your opinion can be changed — the other thousands of members that might just see the exchange and click on a single link that is undecided on the issue, may however.

    https://www.businessinsider.com/sin...d-save-us-massive-administrative-costs-2020-1
    https://www.pgpf.org/blog/2019/07/how-does-the-us-healthcare-system-compare-to-other-countries
    https://axenehp.com/international-healthcare-systems-us-versus-world/
    https://www.healthsystemtracker.org...re-countries/#item-dalys-rate-per-100000-2017
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2020
  18. Polydectes

    Polydectes Well-Known Member

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    I do not have to give you evidence for my doubt. I don't know how many times I have to say that to you. If you think I'm nuts for doubting your claims I can live with that I don't care I have no personal connection to this

    Also if you ever want to change someone's mind you have to understand their perspective. You don't want to. From my perspective socialism is cancer that destroys Nations and ends people. The reason I say that is all the times it's been tried in history.

    Responses like butt butt butt butt the Nordic model doesn't undo nine decades of history.

    you don't understand that perspective because you don't want to understand that perspective you don't want to change minds do you want to call everyone who disagrees with you some idiot that rejects what you believe to be fact.

    Changing minds is a selfless endeavor. So no you can't change anyone's mind not until you learn to take yourself out of it. Remove your emotional connections.

    You can blame it on me I'm okay with it I've taken the heat for a lot worse. But you will never succeed until you understand reasons why people oppose what you are saying.

    Every single conversation I've ever been in with you you pull the same crap. you insist on something you link one or two things and say that that's absolute unquestionable proof, and then you demand evidence for my doubt.

    If you keep trying the same thing over and over to expect different results well I think you know the rest of that.

    I'm sorry it's not easy to convince people who don't already agree with you.
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2020
  19. HTownMarine

    HTownMarine Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Oh, well, I'm lazy as ****...

    And have more money than time.
     
  20. Polydectes

    Polydectes Well-Known Member

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    Also I'm sorry you find this so frustrating.

    But when talking with people who don't agree with you about something, you can't just post a link or two that affirms your belief and therefore is enough to convince you and expect that to be convincing.

    The reason for all the division in the country is because people do not want to respect people who disagree with them. It's so much easier just to call them Nazis fascist socialist Communist or idiots.

    It is difficult to understand other people's perspectives. You can't muck this up with your personal feelings.

    So if you're emotionally attached to socialism maybe argue about something different something you have no interest in outside of curiosity. Maybe something you have no strong opinion of. It will help you understand how to be more persuasive or how to change minds.
     
  21. cd8ed

    cd8ed Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I have never called you a “Nazis fascist socialist Communist or idiot”, it is strange that you say I am the emotional one when you post stuff like the above.

    I have been nothing but polite to you while you dance around source after source and refuse to even discuss the issue all while demanding more evidence so you can ignore it. My personal feelings are irrelevant, I have data, facts, and sources that have shaped my opinion. You have none of these.

    To summarize: Guess what, I don’t care what you believe, I have dealt with you too often to believe your opinion can be changed — the other thousands of members that might just see the exchange and click on a single link that is undecided on the issue, may however.

    https://www.businessinsider.com/sin...d-save-us-massive-administrative-costs-2020-1
    https://www.pgpf.org/blog/2019/07/how-does-the-us-healthcare-system-compare-to-other-countries
    https://axenehp.com/international-healthcare-systems-us-versus-world/
    https://www.healthsystemtracker.org...re-countries/#item-dalys-rate-per-100000-2017

    And a new one:

    Medicare for All will save Americans $450 billion and prevent 68,000 unnecessary deaths each and every year.
    https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(19)33019-3/fulltext
     
  22. Polydectes

    Polydectes Well-Known Member

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    I didn't say you were emotional I said you were emotionally attached to your position. I base that on your logical fallacy. Demanding I prove your belief wrong.
    I drew you a map, I told you exactly what evidence you needed to provide I'm sorry you can't do that but it's what is required. You haven't been polite. Insisting that your beliefs are fact while demanding that I prove you wrong is anything but polite
    This is why I don't look at links. This one didn't present objective metrics as to how Europe has better health Care. It couldn't be less germane to the discussion.

    I had to read all that crap to see what I asked for isn't there.

    Yeah I guess you'll pretend this is a source addressing what I doubt and I doubt any of the others do either.

    I knew there was a reason you linked and didn't quote.

    Yeah I just looked at all of them not a damn one gives objective metrics that I asked for. That's why you didn't quote them.
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2020
  23. Polydectes

    Polydectes Well-Known Member

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    But the impending recession... No matter what causes the next one, even if it's 15 years after Trump dies these people will say he caused it.

    Hatred clouds their vision.
     
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  24. cd8ed

    cd8ed Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I asked you what metrics you were looking for, I must have missed where you drew me a map of what you required to discuss this is good faith — care to direct me to it: quote or post number will be great and I will happily source the material.
     
  25. Polydectes

    Polydectes Well-Known Member

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    you wouldn't have to ask if you read. Objective.
     

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