Medicare for all???

Not only is this false, it is also a red herring.

The question that needs to be answered is what kind of socienty we want.

I see healthcare as every bit as important as food and shelter. Lack of healthcare blocks all endeavors, even subtracting from relatives and other support mechanisms. It is a primary cause of bankruptcy. It is a severe hardship.

All other industrialized nations see that and answer by ensuring that all their people have healthcare when needed.

 

Then you won't mind paying the exact same cost as the guy who earns 5X your salary, cuz it's for society, and you care so much

 

Personalizing this does not lead to a valid argument - nor to a rational solution.

Our tax system is scale for good reason.

 

Ok.. and who decides if its medically urgent?

Hint: government

Plus... I dont have to wait now, regardless. In the transaction between my insurance company, my doctor, and me, I get in nearly immediately.

Why should I give that up so others can benefit from the Medicare for all option?

 

To me? Not really.

To be honest, I think most people are tired of hearing the excuses.

 

Actually, hospitals decide that.

Today we have Medicare managed by government and for-profit insurance which is managed by insurance companies. In both cases, hospitals decide if treatment is medically urgent.

 

Uh no.

See, what you dont understand is that doctors are only willing to accept so many patients because the government pays **** and is slow to pay.

It's all about who has the money.

When hospitals have long wait times, it's because the government sucks.

 

We'd have to get into what is meant by "urgent" I guess.

And, the pay rate by Medicare can be adjusted. Today, Medicare is seen as a social service - which gives congressman (and our president) latitude to demand that Medicare pay LESS.

Then, you complain that Medicare pays less, making service slower.

This is similar to the VA problem. Since almost no voters use VA, it can get pimped at budget time.

 

Why can't the government simply open up a group plan, spread the risk pool, and provide healthcare for those who can't otherwise pay for it without forcing others on private insurance to participate?

 

1) The CONDITION decides it. When profit is removed from the equation, the ONLY decider is your health. Those that most need, not those most able to pay, are given priority. Rich or poor, your bad knee makes way for the bypass.

2) Under public health you'd still be able to give private hospitals all your money, if that's your thing.

 

MEDICALLY urgent. That's where the buck stops.

 

They don't - they have exactly the wait times fitting the condition. If you present in cardiac arrest, you won't even wait for long enough to give your details. If you present with a strained ankle, you'll wait.

 

I'd say there were a couple issues. One is how to pay for it. Another is what is the edge condition that causes people to have to buy insurance. That would require management of screening people for how much income and wealth they actually have. This can change year on year, so how often do you check up on everyone who is on the plan? That hits me as massive work.

Another is that we already have several different systems. Adding more systems hits me as inefficient/expensive.

Another is that I still think we'd be better off if those corporations that are becoming successful don't have to hit a point where they suddenly need to provide healthcare insurance to their employees.

Having one system that applies to everyone seems more efficient, due to far less management of multiple sets of rules, checking up to ensure people are still qualified, etc. Also, I'm fine if people buy health insurance to extend the federal program - like with Medicare and like a number of other countries do.

 

I used to have this crazy heart beat that would start up once in a while. I presented with that once at a small town hospital with no ER, and I was on my back in a treatment room with a doctor before they knew my last name.

There were plenty of other people waiting.

That's triage.

 

When profit is removed? So the entire healthcare system will be bought and run by the government? I thought you were advocating for just single PAYER option. That doctors, hospitals, etc. remain private and do have profit?

By doctors that are paid a pittance? I think at that point I would rather have a doctor that works extra hard to make sure that his customer that pays him well is satisfied. We have seen how government runs healthcare, the VA. This is what you desire for everybody?

Ok, so private hospitals still do exist. So why do I have to partake in your single payer program? Can't I elect not to participate?

 

Meaning, you want me to pay for it, and me to pay for my own private insurance that I desire.

It's always about sticking it to some people and giving others a free ride. Always.

Why should it be based on wealth or income, and not based on risk?

Because none of these existing systems achieve the outcome you want, and that is effectively wealth redistribution using Healthcare as the lever.

Because, at the end of the day, those people pay for you and themselves.

Much like our education system, people that send their kids to private school still pay property taxes to fund the schools their neighbors kids go to.

Collectivism sucks. Sorry.

 

To make a point of your last statement- why do our doctors have to practice defensive medicine extensively, and spend a great deal of their time dealing with paperwork and legal issues?
Why do we have more than three times the saturation of lawyers than any other country in the world? Why are most of the ads on television either for drugs taking half their time to state warnings, or lawyers telling people they are entitled to compensation if they ever took a drug or had a medical procedure?

I think the practice of medicine today has too little to do with the practice of medicine, too much to do with the need to defend themselves against the predators and bureaucrats.

 

HINT: Doctors do. Just like in every other country with socialized medicine.


And also, because having to wait a couple extra days to get an xray so that some other poor soul can have life saving treatment is you know... just kind of the right thing to do.


My sister lives in the UK. EVERY SINGLE medical decision she makes is made between her and her doctor, and no one else.

 

Not true.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.fo...ersion-of-medicare-for-all-is-collapsing/amp/

Even if the doctors say they need it, availability and access to the care is determine by government funding resulting in wait times.

 

A wait time is not the same thing as having the government decide your healthcare.

Is it okay for me to wait on say, a rotator cuff tear surgery while someone with a heart valve issue gets priority treatment? Yup. Sure is.


Need is a much better way to parse healthcare than whomever has the biggest wallet. Since it apparently has to be parsed out somehow.

 

nope, you just allow them to get a tax write off for what they spent on their own plan... up to what they paid in taxes for healthcare, not anymore then that

90% of Americans will pay less on their healthcare with medicare for all, the top 10% will pay more, as most will choose the public option, as the private option is going up and up and many can no longer afford it

corporations will no longer have to offer to pay a potion of insurance, this will help small businesses as well

 

Medicaid is a different animal than Medicare.

 

It's usually based on a percentage of your income, not a fixed premium.

 

It sounds like you are describing a public option that is supported solely by premiums. There actually is already a limited one, Tricare for Gray area retirees. The problem is that you still have to pay for it and this entire exercise is about getting someone else to pay for it.

 

I wouldn't have to wait now with my private insurance.

Why do you expect me to sacrifice for somebody else's benefit? Worse when you force me to.

Everybody sacrifice and cough up the money to provide for people who cant or won't provide for themselves. No thanks.

**** collectivism.