Is the Democratic Party destined to become the minority party for the foreseeable future?

Lets not fall into the trap of confusing a progressive ideology with an anti-establishment persona or agenda. They are separate. Right now nothing seems worse than appearing to be a Washington 'insider' politician because that is who's getting the blame for the Great Recession, but that switches depending on the mood of the electorate and there is every chance that eventually Trump is going to bring the notion of an experienced insider politican right back into vogue as a reaction to his ' anti-'deep state'/drain- the- swamp/ businessman's pitch' that got him in, but I don't think we are there yet and that is why Biden is doing so very badly compared to Buttigieg.

Alternately, you can be very progressive ideologically and work primarily within the establishment, within the party, playing Washington insider ball, and defend all three as the best method to reform as opposed to working from outside these institutions or you can be a progressive, present an outsiders image and actually be an establishment presence in Washington a la Maxine Waters.

I am not on the Bernie Train myself, but that is not because I blame him for 2016. I don't. I think he did his level best, but his basic constituency was always 'non-transferable' with its emphasis on young voters, and far left ideologues and anti-establishment/ anti Washington sorts. He was never going to be able to transfer loyalty to him, to loyalty to Hillary with some passionate speeches or anti Trump rhetoric. Too many of the young voters got bored stayed home. the anti-establishment voters drifted towards Trump, and the far left could either vote Jill Stein and Green or write in Sanders. None of that was Bernie's fault. That was the way these political cards were dealt, long before the conventionl,

I prefer Warren or Buttigieg, because they don't present the same problems as Bernie does with his Democrat socialist label. Its not about ideological purity with me. I will be fine with a progressive or moderate if they have the political skills and accumen to succeed in Washington and want to get a more progressive direction going and they can beat Trump.

I will settle for Sanders, or Klobuchar without throwing some hissy fit. That I reserve for Bloomburg.

 

We agree that Progressive is not necessarily anti-Establishment. However there is a significant segment of the Establishment that is anti-Progressive. They are the problem IMO because they are ones who are standing in the way of the party getting back to it's roots of supporting hardworking Americans instead of the wealthy elite.

I agree that Warren does have both the Establishment and Progressive credentials and can work WITHIN the system. Mayor Pete strikes me as an Establishment shill who would abandon the Progressives as soon as he takes office, possibly even sooner.

The Progressive agenda is disruptive because it exposes the VENALITY of the Dem Establishment sucking up the Greed Obsessed Wall Street Casino Banksters. That is the core of the malignancy and excising is going to be a challenge because they fight will it tooth and nail.

However FAILING to do so has even more dire consequences.

And that is why Bernie is the catalyst to make it happen. He can veto the agenda that shifts the wealth into Offshore bank accounts and he KNOWS how to negotiate to get what he is needed. He will essentially force Congress to come to the table with concessions for hardworking Americans. I doubt that Bernie has any expectation of having a second term so he will push hard for what is needed right from the get go.

In essence Bernie will be the champion of We the People and that is EXACTLY what we need NOW!

 

Did Democrats learn anything from 2016? Some, perhaps most, did learn that abandoning the traditional Democratic base of white working class voters was a mistake. Instead they focused on minorities and the Democratic elite. They completely ignored the angst bubbling up from the great working class Americans that Trump captured. They deserved to lose. It wasn't just Hillary, it was the fact that Hillary defined the party.

2018 demonstrated getting back to traditional Democratic values; wages, jobs, health care, education and immigration was a winning ticket. That and a focus on local issues won. So much for local level strategy. I suspect a repeat for 2020 on the local level. A few kooks won their district (full of kooks) and became objects of conversation. Will they survive for a second term??

The Democrats look like they're fixing to blow the wheels off their wagon again, nationally. Let's take a deep breath and drink a gallon of reality kool aide. Bernie Sanders is a kook. A geezer, loudmouth, attack dog that hates traditional American values so he wants to start a revolution. Bernie is a nut that appeals to young voters full of ideologically righteous piss and vinegar. Biden is too old and status quo. Warren is Bernie light with spastic arm movements. Buttigieg is, let's face it, gay. I don't think Americans are ready for "First Dude" in the WhiteHouse. If Bloomberg isn't the richest man in America he's damn close. He needs Superman tights with Wall Street on the chest. Klobuchar is nice enough with a good record of winning, but nobody seems to care.

Is it any wonder that 67% of Democrats favor "OTHER?" If there is another Obama out there, he/she would empty the Democratic wagon in a hurry. If I think about a winning team they mostly end up being Republicans (not Trump types). People like Colin Powell, Condi Rice, and Nikki Haley are my personal favorites. If there are Democratic counterparts (I'm sure they are) they're buried
somewhere. Gotta' confess that Adam Schiff's oratorical ability blew me away. If he got the nomination Trump's head would explode. Frankly, I could get behind a Schiff run - polished, reserved, and intelligent.

After four years of Trump, one would think road kill would beat Trump. Unfortunately, the Democrats managed to dig up a bunch of long fingernails scratching a blackboard that put the party at risk. Historically, this is a moment in time where Democrats could put their party in the White House for decades. If they play their cards right. Instead they seem to be running on that "We'd rather be right(ous) than win mode." If the Democrats blow this one, they don't deserve to be in power again. It may not matter. Another four years of Trump will make America not a prize worth fighting for.

 

We the People are coming to a fork in the road!

If we allow the ESTABLISHMENT to FORCE us to go to the RIGHT our nation ends up in bankruptcy and We the People are IMPOVERISHED serfs of the MEGA WEALTHY elite!

That is the road that BOTH the GOP and the Establishment Dems are DEMANDING must be taken even though we all know that it is AGAINST the best interests of We the People.

OTOH there are the PROGRESSIVES who have heard Bernie speak of a future where EVERYONE who works hard is ACTUALLY REWARDED for their hard work! They are no longer ENSLAVED to DEBT and forced to work long hours for a pittance. They are no longer FORCED to work when they or their children are SICK. They are no longer barely eking out a living paycheck to paycheck.

These Progressives have done the math and figured out that there are way MORE disillusioned voters than the DIFFERENCE needed to win elections. They have figured out that if they talk to these voters about their problems and explain that there is a VIABLE ALTERNATIVE to what is happening now they can get them to VOTE and CHANGE the OUTCOME of the 2020 elections.

These Progressives have been doing this for the past 3 years now and going to continue doing it all through November. You can observe their efforts for yourself in the delegate counts after each primary. The Progressives are WORKING HARD and will be REWARDED by winning the primaries and then the general election.

The Progressives are making Social Democracy a REALITY and while this is causing a great deal of ANGST among the ESTABLISHMENT they are just going to have to come to terms with it because it is NOT going to stop no matter how much they moan and complain.

We the People are going to DECIDE which path WE want to take and is the Establishment gets in the way they will discover that We the People will take back our government from them.

 

Here's your problem. the more black and white Sanders and friends makes this war against corporations and their 'shills', and the more they sneer at the integrity and intelligence of politicians who gain financial benefit from corporation via donation, the more Bernie Bros likewise insult the integrity and intelligence of everyone else who gets a fiscal benefit from a corporation. That includes people who get a paycheck from one, and people who are invested and receive a dividend or interest payment from a 401 K or a mutual fund etc and those include the majority of Americans who vote.

All those good honest people did not like to be told that Pete, and Joe, and Amy, and Warren, and Booker, and Harris, and Gillibrand, and Yang, and O'Rourke, and Bennet, and Steyer, and Gabbard, and Patrick, and Delaney and Castro are between one of about three degrees of shill-dom and they are all shades of this caricature corporatist neoliberal morally compromised greedy ambitious pigs, because it makes them wonder if Sanders and his allies are calling all of them who support them, the same sort of names too. They like their paycheck and their 401K and their investment fund, and dividend checks etc too and they will not vote for people who insult the integrity of everyone who gains some benefit from .

That dogmatic view hopes for some to realize that they are seen as victims of a scam( the voters)and others( the politicians) who accept donations to fund their message) to know that they see them are perpetrators of that same fraud, but those are mixed roles in this society and mixed messages in the political theater because the workers and those that are otherwise financially invested in the success of corporations cannot accept that binary world and feel comfortable. It also refuses to recognize that mega unions have plenty of resources of their own they like to throw around, and those can be as corrupting in politics as a corporate donation can.

So supporters of Sanders need to, please stop insulting everyone as corrupted by corporate money , who also happens to be an opponent of Bernie Sanders for President! Its simplistic, sanctimonious and demeaning, whether it is a politician or a voter. We need to win this election, and spouting 1950's socialist dogma with new labels of scorn, will not do it!

 

The New York Post reports, "President Trump on Sunday accused Rep. Adam Schiff of leaking intelligence that Russia is trying to interfere in the 2020 presidential election to help Bernie Sanders.

“They ought to investigate Adam Schiff for leaking that intelligence,” the president told reporters, adding that he hadn’t been briefed on any Russian meddling on Sanders’ behalf."

In other words, Trump didn't want the American people to know about the threat posed by Russia to our Presidential election.

In other words, Trump is placing the blame on Schiff for Russia's threat to our Presidential election.

Trump is an embarrassment to our entire country. The American people know more about what is going on than Trump.

 

I guess the OP forgot 2018

Oh and the OP is a Republican.( a Never Trumper true)

I suppose he sees the end of Trump and now wants his party back

 

Trump could be unleashed.

For four more years Trump would be the most powerful man on the planet. Already he ignores the American people. Answering only to Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, and "Fox and Friends," he cancelled regular press conferences and is scared to death of the White House press corps. Trump refuses to answer to the American people and now we can add Congress to the list. He will simply ignore what representatives in Congress , and he has already hijacked the power of the purse, all due to a complicit Senate led by Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell. Senate Republians in a recest vote gave Trump the power to wage war.

He will rule with complete impunity for four more years (or more). That is the power the Senate gave him, and why? Because they are afraid of Trump's base.

Trump’s ongoing purge of his administration is rapidly getting worse. Trump is not merely purging officials to sate his anger at those who crossed him — that is, as backward-looking retribution against disloyalty.

Rather, the real driver here is that Trump is removing officials who committed the sin of trying to defend the rule of law from his efforts to corrupt it. This is forward-looking: It clears the way for more such corruption of the rule of law and sends a message to others about what awaits them if they stand in the way of this as it continues to devolve.

The DNI reported to the House Intelligence Committee in compliance with his duties. Trump didn't like the report. He fired the DNI.

That merely serves as an example, and, in the short span of time since the Senate let him off, there are countless other examples.

Be careful what you wish for!

 

Well said.

 

Again. What's the worst that's going to happen from "Trump unleashed". He isn't going to start a war or anything drastic like that.

And Rush Limbaugh has terminal cancer so it isn't like he will be around long to influence President Trump anyway.

 

Be careful what YOU wish for, Sandy.

Trump does not want us in some stupid war, Sandy, unlike Hillary who loved war and who you voted for. His record proves it.

Obama fired Gen. McCrystal for saying something against him, remember? Presidents don't keep unsupportive cabinet heads or agency heads. Obama didn't, and you KNOW Hillary wouldn't. Not a chance in hell.

LMAO - You seem to think it's a big crisis because Trump doesn't hold a press conference. Hell, he's the most transparent and open president of our lifetimes. If you deny it, you're lying.

Seth

 

Debate tonight and the South Carolina primary on Saturday. Super Tuesday on, well, Tuesday.

We will be able to tell a lot more after all that.

It appears that Sanders has the support of 25 to 30% of the Democrats, the young socialist wing of the Party. That means 75 to 70% of Democrats do not want Sanders as their candidate.

Most polls show whoever runs against Trump beats him, even a socialist. Trump is that bad as President.

 

To the question, "is the Democratic Party destined to become the minority party for the foreseeable future," the answer is...no.

Admittedly, the Democrats seem to be making every stupid decision possible lately, but demography is destiny, and demography is on the Democrat's side. The party's stupidity will be damaging, but not fatal.

 

On average Sanders support is roughly 30% of Democrats. https://www.realclearpolitics.com/e..._democratic_presidential_nomination-6730.html

That means 70% of Democrats do not want Sanders as their candidate.

30% of Democrats is not sufficient to beat Trump.

30% of Democrats is not sufficient to recapture the House.

30% of Democrats is not sufficient to win the Senate.

It is well and good for Sanders and Warren to shout out to their followers they must be bold. It is also quite stupid to be idealistic when the opposition party controls the White House and the Senate. Sanders and Warren are putting the cart before the horse. Sanders and Warren are asking for a cart before the horse when there is no cart. The Democrats must first win the White House and Congress before embarking on needed changes.

Democrats need to ask themselves, what good are their bold and idealistic dreams if Trump is in office for four more years and the GOP controls Congress? They are dreaming if they think Americans will chose a socialist to be their President.

 

I had to like you, as much as I hate to admit it, when you're right you're right. Good post, and lots of hard truth to it, well done!!

 

Another good post, what the hells going on here "Pinch's self"

 

Is your argument that Sanders can't grow his support among Democrats? That he's hit a ceiling? It seems like I heard a similar argument about candidate Trump in early 2016. I think that if Sanders is the nominee, the party will unite around him, even James Carville and Chris Matthews.

I would be surprised if a "never Bernie" movement occurs. Even some Never Trumper Republicans like Nicolle Wallace have said they will vote for Bernie if he's the nominee. Frankly, it doesn't matter who becomes the nominee. The party will unite behind him, even if it's a commie.