Why doesn't socialism work?

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Le Chef, Feb 25, 2020.

  1. LangleyMan

    LangleyMan Well-Known Member

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    You have no idea what you're talking about.
     
  2. AFM

    AFM Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    That's complete BS. Creative destruction is the strength of capitalism. That needs no defense. Schumpeter's opinion is that capitalism would be weakened by a change from innovative managers to bureaucratic managers. That has nothing to do with creative destruction. Schumpeter did not advocate socialism and his opinion has been shown to be dead wrong.
     
  3. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    SKILL-SET

    Yes, it began the demise of America as a major democracy. Moreover, his political love-affair with the British PM started the same downturn in Britain. (Which is why the UK is in the same shat. Yeah, right, Uncle Sam is going to pick-up the trade it will lose with the European Union!)

    Most importantly, they don't see the way out. A country cannot expand its debt annually by funding a DoD designed to protect-the-world! Moreover, what protection does the world need that requires such expenditure? (The worst that can happen is another al Qaeda that wants to take down the World Trade towers; and if there ever was, THEN and ONLY THEN would invasion of a foreign country be merited.)

    At home (and I repeat this argument for the thousandth-time here in this forum) the real challenge is the fact that the Industrial Age has upped and left the US (for China) as of the 1990s. (Barely 12.8% of all jobs are now found in the Industry category* nowadays. See the BLS data here).

    We are now entering the Information Age where a much higher skill-set level is required of the Labor Force. And that skill-set can only be obtained by more Americans if post-secondary Education become Free, Gratis and For Nothing ... !

    *Namely on the chart "Goods-producing, excluding agriculture"
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2020
  4. Derideo_Te

    Derideo_Te Well-Known Member

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    :roflol:

    Moving the goal posts yet AGAIN?

    Sad!

    SMALL BUSINESSES are NOT getting commercial loans because they LACK the necessary COLLATERAL so instead they are FORCED into doing PERSONAL GUARANTEED loans instead!

    It is clear that you either did not read or understand what your own link actually says!

    Those Personal Guarantees are the Security Replacement for the absence of Collateral!

    Thanks for once again establishing that the disqualification is more than justified.

    :roflol:
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2020
  5. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Yes, indeed, let's look at the definition given:
    Item one above is irrelevant. No such "transition" of that kind is planned anywhere. The words "transition from capitalism to socialism" is incongruous. Whyzzat?

    Because capitalism defines an "economic-regime" regarding the private ownership of the means of production. Socialism per se assumes that the government owns all the means of production. The difference between the two thus becomes fundamental.

    There is no mention whatsoever in the Merriam-Webster dictionary of the most critical aspect of any Truly Socialist country. It is that the government owns and runs the means of Supply of goods/services. What is also not mentioned is that a Socialist Government manages as well the complete Financial aspect of the country.

    The definition quoted above is therefore incomplete and thus useless as regards a singularly key-element of the definition. Namely "who owns what"?

    A far better definition of Social Democracy is found in WikiPedia:
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2020
  6. Reiver

    Reiver Well-Known Member

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    This amused me. You ramble about a Marxism-Leninism nonsense and, when confronted with the latest analysis into feasible socialism, you go 'full right wing' and call it gibberish. Tut tut! You're just confirming that your position, based only on the cretinous 'government is socialism' fib, is not fit for purpose.
     
  7. Reiver

    Reiver Well-Known Member

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    Clueless! Schumpeter was competing with Marx over the interaction of capitalism's creative and destructive elements. I'd offer you some reading (e.g. https://www.jstor.org/stable/1885348 ), but we both know that your position is based on avoiding it.
     
  8. bricklayer

    bricklayer Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You are not skinny because someone else is fat, and you are not poor because someone else is wealthy.

    You are infected with envy, an intolerance of others having more than you.
     
    crank and Collateral Damage like this.
  9. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    THE ROOTS OF ECONOMIC UNFAIRNESS

    And you are infected with a bad case of SELFISHNESS. Life is all about you, you, you.

    And when push-comes-to-shove it's somebody else's son/daughter that get their ass shot-off because they joined the Army (that had promised them a college education after their period of service).

    Avaricious individuals like you are in abundance in the US, after years/centuries of unfair, unmitigated and untamed personal-profit-priority.

    From here: The Roots of Economic Inequality - excerpt:
    This societal-illness driven by economic free-choice is abundant in America ...
     
    Derideo_Te likes this.
  10. LangleyMan

    LangleyMan Well-Known Member

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    You're dodging the question and hiding behind insults.
    You don't like progressive taxes. Unfortunately for you, the majority of Americans support them. Progressive income taxes are constitutional.
    Workers have been disadvantaged by the rules of our economic system. Right-to-work laws make it difficult for them to join unions. Poorly-funded schools in lower-income communities make learning job skills more difficult for all age groups. Why don't you get it?
    All because I think taxes should be progressive? Are you okay?
    You Trumpers are getting touchy.

    If China, South Korea, Hong Kong, and Singapore can beat back COVID-19, your "stable genius" will be wiped out in November if the virus gets out-of-hand in this country.
    Bernanke was addressing the Fed, not a classroom of grad students. You're reeling.
    "Two-dimensional view?" Egads.
    "The Federal Reserve System is not 'owned' by anyone. The Federal Reserve was created in 1913 by the Federal Reserve Act to serve as the nation's central bank. The Board of Governors in Washington, D.C., is an agency of the federal government and reports to and is directly accountable to the Congress."

    https://www.federalreserve.gov/faqs/about_14986.htm

    Why are you asking me? Don't you know?
    Deflecting attention from your lack of knowledge?
    I invite everyone who wants to understand what the Fed did in 2008-2009 to save the economy to read Bernanke's speech.

    [​IMG]

    The Republican-controlled Federal Reserve cut the money supply in 1930-33 with disastrous results. That was Friedman's point.
     
  11. LangleyMan

    LangleyMan Well-Known Member

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    Declaring victory for your ideas and hiding behind a smokescreen of insults?
     
  12. AFM

    AFM Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Opinion. Regardless of what you believe about Schumpeter and creative destruction, creative destruction has not resulted in socialism.
     
  13. AFM

    AFM Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Ironic indeed from the cartoonmeister.
     
  14. hellofromwarsaw

    hellofromwarsaw Well-Known Member

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    Why is the richest country on the planet the only rich country without healthcare daycare paid parental leave cheap college and training great infrastructure and vacations? and mainly taxing the rich and giant corporations their fair share? the scumbag GOP and it's ridiculous propaganda machine... We have a flat tax system if you count all taxes and the country has been going to hell along with the middle class for 30 years with these ridiculous GOP tax rates. Wake up and smell the coffee. And cut the ridiculous insults. Try and talk politics instead of spewing talking points and hate.when you let the rich and giant corporations get away with murder there is no money to invest in America and Americans. For 35 years now....
     
  15. AFM

    AFM Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Thanks for the morning humor.
     
  16. LangleyMan

    LangleyMan Well-Known Member

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    Brits should get it through their heads that Trump smells blood in the water when he looks at a post-Brexit UK.
    While I agree the U.S. wastes a lot of money on their military, the debt problem is more a function of tax cuts handed out to rich people.
    We're on the cusp of AI, quantum computing, and high-speed wireless putting huge numbers of people out of work, forever. The old values of everyone working for their keep will no longer apply. If there ever was a time for conservatives (liberals, too) to adapt the positive principles of their political philosophy to the new reality.

    This will be quite difficult for conservatives whose values are most challenged.
     
  17. LangleyMan

    LangleyMan Well-Known Member

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    Probably a fair assessment of some.
     
  18. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    A new reality for who? Those who have post-graduate degree - at the very least. Those who don't have one or did not have one since the Great Recession exploded in our faces are, yes, now retired - but on a pitiful retirement income. Retiréés are only about 17% of the population. But when you add to that the percentage who are below the poverty threshold (nearly 12%), then both amounts to
     
  19. LangleyMan

    LangleyMan Well-Known Member

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    "Sad?" It's you pretending you know what you're talking about.
    Oh, get off it. There is a huge amount of unsecured trade credit. If you really worked for a large bank on loan compliance, you know what I'm talking about.
    You're running a bluff, again.
    You're still at it.

    https://www.ondeck.com/loantype-unsecured-business-loans

    https://opentextbc.ca/businessopenstax/chapter/obtaining-short-term-financing/

    https://www.dnb.com/ca-en/perspectives/finance-credit-risk/what-is-trade-credit-and-how-can-it-help-your-business.html
    You're in a hole. Stop digging.
     
  20. wist43

    wist43 Banned

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    So the Federal Reserve is a branch of the Federal government?? And the Republicans controlled it in 1928-29??

    Therefore, the crash is their fault??
     
  21. LangleyMan

    LangleyMan Well-Known Member

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    Large numbers of people will be unemployed, many permanently. That reality will impact all of us.

    Lots of jobs are at risk, not just anyone who drives a delivery vehicle. Computers are reading CT scans, doing legal research... many high-pay, high-skill jobs will be impacted.
     
  22. EarthSky

    EarthSky Well-Known Member

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    Can you document any evidence that highly productive Swedes are moving to the US or doing better there?
     
  23. Collateral Damage

    Collateral Damage Well-Known Member

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    I've been seeing an ongoing contradiction... Some saying that there is no Middle Class anymore, while also saying that the Middle Class is bearing all the weight of taxes.

    So which is it?

    That being said, why should other people pay for someone's education above K-12, when that education is solely for the financial and social benefit of the receiver?
     
  24. Collateral Damage

    Collateral Damage Well-Known Member

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    Perhaps you need to read up on what the Federal Reserve is, and how it's run.

    https://www.federalreserve.gov/faqs/about_12594.htm
     
  25. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Look, we as a nation are not novitiates in Computer Technologies. The kids nowadays all have computers able to interface the network. That is becoming their Primary Tool. (I know that for a fact here in France. I cannot believe it is any different in the US.)

    But, for what? For mostly any professional subject that requires accessing information! That bit, the information, must come from post-secondary education that we chose to undertake. Whatever the choice, however, it must be offered Free, Gratis and For Nothing. Bernie got that right the first-time around and convinced Hillary to put it into her Election Program.

    And the Effing Electoral College screws-up the election's outcome and hands us this twit of a nincompoop "to lead the country".

    I cannot think of a more important aspect of the development of the nation than Free Tertiary Education.

    And if anyone wants to propose an alternative, I'm all eyes here ...
     

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