Ideological Paralysis vs Pragmatic Responsiveness

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Natty Bumpo, Mar 28, 2020.

  1. Natty Bumpo

    Natty Bumpo Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG]
    "Economic depression cannot be cured by legislative action or executive pronouncement.
    Economic wounds must be healed by the action of the cells of the economic body -
    the producers and consumers themselves."

    HERBERT HOOVER (R) 1929-1933
    His prescription for the Great Depression, 1929-1939
    To overcome the nation's dire straits amidst the Bush/Cheney Great Recession, The American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009, a massive $792 billion fiscal stimulus legislative package, was passed by Congress, and triggered an unprecedented 10+ year era of economic growth, with only 3 Republican Senators and 0 Republican Congressmen voting in favor of the bill.

    Eleven years later, amidst economic collapse, a massive $2 trillion fiscal stimulus package has passed both House and Senate with overwhelming bipartisan support.

    Conspicuous amidst the impressive solidarity was a lone remnant of Hooverism:

    Screen Shot 2020-03-28 at 11.31.41 AM.png
    Throwhback Thomas Harold Massie (R)
    (Some cynics suspect Massie's stunt as being a wily ploy calculated to insure social distancing from all his House peers. Rumors that, in contravention of CDC advisories, he is also abstaining from all personal hygiene to the same end are unsubstantiated.)

    Screen Shot 2020-03-28 at 11.47.32 AM.png
    Imagine what GOP icon Herbie would think of self-proclaimed "King of Debt!" Trump's giveaway scheme!
     
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  2. Daniel Light

    Daniel Light Well-Known Member

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    Interesting the that this economic crisis is being handled the same as the last economic crisis.
    Plenty of hubris and hypocrisy on all sides of the political spectrum.

    Unfortunately, now Donald Trump is the King of Debt ($5 trillion + increase at the end of his first term). I would
    much preferred this not to be the case. But there it is. Everything that Obama was rightfully criticized for, Trump has now eclipsed - Bigger increase in debt, Bail-outs, Give-aways, Stock market returns, Poor GDP growth ... Trump's numbers will be worse than Obama's on all fronts. Good chance we'll see higher unemployment than when Obama left office as well.
     
  3. Natty Bumpo

    Natty Bumpo Well-Known Member

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    The GOP's purported fiscal conservatives' pretense to responsible budgetary management has now gone the way of White evangelicals' phony insistence on personal moral integrity, both exposed by their craven surrender of principle to the depravity of Trumpery.
     
  4. PPark66

    PPark66 Well-Known Member

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    Trump hasn’t greatly influenced the Republican Party he’s simply highlighted it’s depravity. It’s one area where he doesn’t deserve the blame.
     
  5. God & Country

    God & Country Well-Known Member

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    And this is all Trump's fault????
     
  6. SkullKrusher

    SkullKrusher Banned

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    So what are you suggesting? 2 Trillion stimulus EVERY year?
     
  7. Daniel Light

    Daniel Light Well-Known Member

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    The Buck Stops There.

    Look. Obama faced a virus that was more deadly than Covid-19 during the H1N1 epidemic. The difference? People didn't panic because they had more trust in how the government would face a crisis. Trump has been undermining trust in government agencies since he took office - and purposely so because it played to his base. Now we are paying for his games with a stock market crash and runs on guns and toilet paper - not because the virus is any more deadly, but because of Trump's management style. He built this crisis.
     
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  8. PPark66

    PPark66 Well-Known Member

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    The theoretical and the reality on the ground often butt heads. We’ve simply got to be open and prepared for adaptation and invention. From my experience there is nothing pure. Let the data guide you and get the job done to the best of your ability in those moments.

    I’ve kept a journal for decades and every few years read it. IMO it’s good to know where your mind has been over the years. At times I find my thoughts completely unrecognizable both good and bad: it’s deflating and up lifting.
     
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2020
  9. ImNotOliver

    ImNotOliver Well-Known Member

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    He repeatedly downplayed it until he could no more. And even still, he insists that governors say nice things about him if they want help. To me, it is perhaps the weirdest most messed up creepy aspect of Trump’s presidency. Every one who works for him has to praise him whenever they speak In public.
     
  10. ImNotOliver

    ImNotOliver Well-Known Member

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    I’ve heard it said that he gives license to their worse instincts.
     
  11. Natty Bumpo

    Natty Bumpo Well-Known Member

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    You can suggest that if you wish.

    In fact, Trump is no more responsible for the economic collapse than he was responsible for the record 10+ years of growth, although his failure to listen to warnings concerning the severity of COVID-19 in timely fashion will contribute significantly to its toll, both human and economic.
     
  12. Natty Bumpo

    Natty Bumpo Well-Known Member

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    Your suggestion appears imprudent at this juncture.
     
  13. Surfer Joe

    Surfer Joe Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I'm starting to think that a severe depression might be the jolt people need to finally address the real problems facing society.
     
  14. garyd

    garyd Well-Known Member

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    Sorry no it is not. Almost all of the Obama stimulous was spent preserving government jobs and paying back D party bundlers only about 5% was spent on so called shovel ready jobs.
     
  15. jdog

    jdog Banned

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    A real depression would be the best thing ultimately for the country. It is an unfortunate fact that prosperity tends to ruin civilizations. It makes people lazy and stupid. The lazy doesn't bother me so much, but the stupid drives me nuts.....
     

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