Evidence for the Creator: Foxhole Atheists

You might be a chimpanzee with a big brain, but me and mine are children of God. Sin is a choice. Without choice there is no love. Do you believe in fixed marriage? I bet not. You want to choose. God gave you that choice. I have plenty of evidence that demands a verdict.

 

what a very empty response.

 

I want my candy and I want it now!!!! Whaaaaaaa! God doesn't play those games. Maybe your Mom did.

 

That would depend on precisely what is meant by jealousy. Parents may jealously guard the parental affections of their children, but one sort of parent does so for the sake of his or her own self-esteem, where another does it to protect the children from seducers.

 

Or maybe God made you, his child, a chimpanzee with a big brain, and the fall is an allegory for our animalistic nature. That certainly makes a lot more sense than punishing all of humanity because Eve ate an apple. The metaphorical interpretation of Genesis makes a lot more sense and is a lot more interesting than a literal one.

I don't believe in God. I think we are chimpanzees with big brains. When we die, thats it. There is no such thing as sin. A rational view of the world unfortunately can't include God, the afterlife, or objective morality because they lack evidence.

If you have evidence, I'd like to hear it, but I've heard it all before, and it doesn't hold any water. I'd rather believe that I'm a child of God, wrong things done to me are actually wrong, that I'm going to a special farm when I die, and my life has some mystical meaning. But my rational side says no to such fantacies. However, most humans can't stomach seeing reality for the cold indifference that it is. That is why we have religion, and that is why you believe.

 

Then " eat drink and be merry because tomorrow we die!" Can't believe in such a bleak, unpurposeful life where love is a temporal fantasy.

 

Exactly, you can't believe in something like that. I have found that most people have religion in their blood. They want to believe that live has purpose, that we are here for a reason, and that there is right and wrong. No matter what facts you tell them, they will believe, because they have to believe, they can't not believe.

But a few of us simply are unable to believe something without evidence. Therefore we don't believe in God, the afterlife, objective purpose in life, or the afterlife. We just can't believe it because it isn't rational.

But yes, eat drink and be merry. Love is a fantasy in our brains like all other emotions, but it is part of being merry.

 

Look up the word bicameralism, it's a psychological term.

 

“Tell the Territorials and soldiers at home that they must know God before they come to the front if they would face what lies before them. We have no atheists in the trenches. Men are not ashamed to say that, though they never prayed before, they pray now with all their hearts.” ~“The Western Times” newspaper of Devon, England, November 1914

Under circumstances of distress, indeed, prayer is adopted with comparatively little reluctance; the mind, which knows not where to fly, flies to God. In agony, nature is no Atheist. ~Hannah More, 1815

"..And what Plato says, That there are few Men so obstinate in their Atheism, that a pressing Danger will not reduce to an acknowledgment of the Divine Power." ~Michel de Montaigne, 1533-1592

"I remember jumping into a hole during a particularly heavy bombing attack. A sergeant crouched lower to make room for me. Then all hell broke loose, and I wasn’t surprised to find myself praying out loud. I heard the sergeant praying, too. When the attack was over I said:
“Sergeant, I noticed you were praying.”
“Yes, sir,” he answered, without batting an eye, “there are no atheists in foxholes.” ~ Warren J. Clear, July 1942

"April 6. The Japs dropped more bombs. Shrapnel fell in the wards. One patient was hit while waiting in the chow line…I know there is not an atheist on Bataan. When the bombs come, everyone lies on the ground and prays aloud, regardless of who is around." ~U.S. Army nurse, Ruth Straub, 1942

"Sergeant Harrington is the only soldier I’ve ever seen who digs round foxholes instead of rectangular ones. He says that’s literally so it will be harder for strafing bullets to get at him, but figuratively so the Devil can’t get him cornered. He says he’s convinced the adage is true that “there are no atheists in foxholes.” ~ Ernie Pyle, war correspondent, May 1943

..quotes from "Quote Investigator"

That this adage has been around for centuries, and perhaps millennia, shows that it is a common perception. I submit that the nature of Man, under duress, produces an almost involuntary response of crying out to God, for help during that time. It is an involuntary, almost instinctive response, and reveals a deep, primal awareness of the Source for help, in a time of danger.

Faced with death, and eternity yawning before us, our souls suddenly realize that facing our Creator is imminent, and can be put off no longer.

..but why wait? Perhaps there will not be time, to reconcile yourself to your Maker. Now is a much better time, where thoughtful reflection, in a time of mental clarity, and a tug from your Creator is drawing you to Him. Listen to His call, now, and find peace with God.

 

It is certainly an adage that has been around for a long time however the anecdotes you list are not evidence they are simply claims. Perhaps you can explain what you mean by evidence?

 

That anecdotal pablum all you have as "evidence"?

Sad!

 

I'm sure there are, or have been, exceptions. I know of none, but i offer this human phenomenon as evidence for the Creator.

Faced with impending death, the odds are you will cry out to God, and feel no mocking tone in that call.

Perhaps the exact location, and source can be found, someday. It only reveals it as something Real, in the human experience.

..maybe. or maybe the sooner people face the Truth of their Creator, will the universe make sense.

In the meantime, the fact that we pray, involuntarily, during times of duress, shows an inkling that we know, in the recesses of our souls, that our Creator is.

Who says He does?

Caricatures and mocking of other's beliefs is just an expression of religious bigotry, and does not address the topic.

The data says yes. My own experience, as one unindoctrinated into religious beliefs, but atheism, also corroborates this perception. We 'know', in the deepest recesses of our souls, that God is There, and we cry out to Him in a crisis.

Personally, i accept that everyone believes differently, and i accept their freedom of conscience. Even atheism is a religious opinion, about the nature of the universe, and i accept the choices and conclusions people have made.

That is, after all, the premise of America. ..and as the last free American, religious freedom and tolerance are important principles, to me.

Perhaps. But i see that judgement as prejudicial, and a reflection of religious bigotry and intolerance.
Is atheism an 'extreme religion!!' ? For many, i see that it is.

..perhaps.. or perhaps this is just mental gymnastics, to attempt to evade the uncomfortable Truth, that your Creator holds you accountable for your choices in life..

?
I'm sure those who profess Christianity pray in foxholes, too.

Unanswered prayer is not evidence of atheism. God has His own plan, and timetable. ..and the many Theists, working on vaccines, acknowledge that, as well.

..that is an 'old saying!?

 

totaly off topic....but just a thought....I read somewhere...I think it was a RAE / NTSB study of aircrashes or something...anyway the last words of most pilots before they hit the dirt is...."OOOOHHH SHIIIIIIITTTTT........." followed by impact with terrain....

 

During the news coverage of his death and subsequent cryonic suspension, Hall of Fame baseball player and fighter pilot Ted Williams was said to be an atheist, by his former teammate Johnny Pesky.[17][18] Richard Tillman, in giving the eulogy for his brother, former NFL player and soldier Pat Tillman, stated: "he's not religious."[19] Tillman's atheism is discussed in a documentary about his life.[20][21] Philip Paulson, plaintiff in several of the lawsuits in the Mount Soledad cross controversy, was an atheist Vietnam combat veteran.[22]

Joe Simpson, author of Touching the Void, addresses the issue in the film adaptation of his nearly fatal climb up the Siula Grande mountain. Referring to the moment when he lay at the bottom of a deep crevasse, dehydrated, alone, and with a broken leg, he states: '"I was totally convinced I was on my own, that no one was coming to get me. I was brought up as a devout Catholic. I'd long since stopped believing in God. I always wondered if things really hit the fan, whether I would, under pressure, turn round and say a few Hail Marys and say 'Get me out of here'. It never once occurred to me. It meant that I really don't believe and I really do think that when you die, you die, that's it, there's no afterlife."[23]

Several atheist organizations object to the phrase. The Military Association of Atheists & Freethinkers has adopted the catch-phrase "Atheists in Foxholes" to emphasize that the original statement is just an aphorism and not a fact. The over 200 members of this organization publicly display their military service in order to show that there are atheists in foxholes, and on ships, and in planes.[24] The religious convictions of current US military personnel are similar to those of the general American population, though studies suggest that members of the military are slightly less religious.[25] Department of Defense (DoD) demographics show that "Atheist" is selected as a religious preference (0.55% or less than 1 percent of the total DoD force) more than non-Christian options such as Agnostic (0.12%), Hindu (0.07%), Buddhist (0.38%), Muslim (0.24%), and Jewish (0.33%).[26] James Morrow has been quoted as saying "'There are no atheists in foxholes' isn't an argument against atheism, it's an argument against foxholes", as the mental state, or decisions, of an extremely frightened and desperate person can hardly be imagined to be more rational than those of a person in a calm state.[27] Due to its opposition to the phrase, the Freedom From Religion Foundation has erected a monument to "Atheists in Foxholes".[28]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/There_are_no_atheists_in_foxholes

I would add Hitchins who faced cancer without ever renouncing his non belief. (although a particulary nasty christian lied about it).

 

So quoting what is written in the Bible is mocking others belief?

 

When you experience the "miracles" of life, it is the evidence of something greater. We have the power to do that because we were made higher than the animals.

 

It refers to a parliamentary form of government with two houses.

 

It wouldn't be evidence even if it were true. And it isn't true.

 

Words often have more than one meaning. Why pretend not to know that?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bicameralism_(psychology)

 

It's true because without "Faith" it is impossible to be pleasing to the Creator. It is about choice. If you had solid evidence......you would choose to survive eternity... you would not choose out of love. God wants your "choice" to be a sovereign decision. Not just another entity He created. The Creator can create limits He imposes on Himself for that reason.....and that reason is Love.

 

No....you have the sovereign ability to reject it. It is not there to offend. It is there to build up.

 

Exactly, Distraff

This god character is almost certainly a product of the human imagination.

Wouldn't be surprised if, deep-down, most believers know that they've probably been taken for a ride.

But their pride and the fact that they have too much time invested in the con prevents them from admitting any doubts publicly.

Hell, I believe even that mother teresa lady dude had serious doubts about her alleged god later in life...

 

There is most certainly an obvious, natural, biological human impulse to "cry out" when in danger. The first thing one does is cry due to discomfort after birth. This is immediately rewarded by cuddling and nourishment. There is no more powerful psychological re-enforcement than that.
This has nothing to do with proof or refutation of "God". It is entirely clear, however, that all efforts so far to objectively prove things one way or the other have failed. Thus, one is left with one's personal experience. This is the ultimate, the only valid, proof. What do you experience as feedback from your existence?
After that, what does it matter if anyone or no one sees things the same way? What a waste of time to argue with someone who has never seen Paris that it exists once you have been there!

 

Your "response" has nothing to do with the claim. The claim in the OP that I responded to was the claim that all people turn to God in dire situations. This is a fable.

 

The data? A person who had no reference to a supernatural savior while under stress would have one suddenly pop into his head? How does a lack of belief corroborate that perception? All you have is subjective bias.