Question: Will the Officers Get A Fair Trial

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Starjet, Jun 5, 2020.

  1. Starjet

    Starjet Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2009
    Messages:
    5,805
    Likes Received:
    1,678
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    He was replying, which made the sadism even more evident.
     
  2. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2010
    Messages:
    63,706
    Likes Received:
    13,464
    Trophy Points:
    113
    If we were to throw Chauvin to the mob - he would be strung up by the neck and justice would be served. Justice will calm the mob - injustice will incense the mob.

    "The Powers" - big money interests, who are part of - and who influence the Political and Bureaucratic Establishment - have vested interests on both sides of the fence.

    On one side - as you point out - they wish to calm the mob - this riot is costing money as is the Corona Chaos. The - and is a threat to the "status quo", meaning that there are calls for serious change - and these calls are getting louder .. be it BLM - Antifa - or the Anti Establishment (AE) movement in general - the latter of which I am a proud member -and you should be too.

    On the other side - severe crisis such as these are wonderful opportunities to further restrict essential liberty - get the citizens to trade essential liberty for security on the basis of fear - of some external or internal threat.

    In the case of Corona / 2020 Riot we have a double whammy. Fear Factor is red lining ...
    Most important is the red light blinking - danger danger - with respect to any new legislation being proposed during this period - or after as a result of this event.

    Any sound minded and honest juror will find Chauvin guilty of at least a lesser charge - aggravated neglect - abuse of power - resulting in death or some such thing.

    The real question is one of punishment - it should not be exaggerated due to the circumstances - as there is an argument to be made for blaming this fellow for what is a systemic issue .. but there needs to be a punishment. If he walks like so many others - this will not only be a miscarriage of justice - but the lid will come off the popcorn pot.
     
  3. Reality

    Reality Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2014
    Messages:
    21,452
    Likes Received:
    7,603
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Seriously? Are you saying that because a guy who should've had the book thrown at him didn't, and the truck driver decided of his own will to forgive the man, which is solely his prerogative, that all of a sudden yanking a suspect you already had secured and in custody out of the car to brutalize him is somehow reasonable and necessary?

    What do you do for a living bud?
     
  4. spiritgide

    spiritgide Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2016
    Messages:
    20,132
    Likes Received:
    16,079
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male

    Your last statement is correct, because this is a lynch mob with no interest in justice or due process. I frankly don't think most actually care about Floyd George either- but more about the license that has given them to loot, burn and act out. IF they cared about justice, they would care equally about the injustice their own people are doing- but that gets no attention at all from them.
     
    garyd likes this.
  5. Reality

    Reality Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2014
    Messages:
    21,452
    Likes Received:
    7,603
    Trophy Points:
    113
    1) They'll need to show his use of force was excessive when he yanked him back out of the car after securing Floyd.
    2) He does not in fact have to understand that. In MN, when you assault someone (which if they prove excessive force he has) and that assault leads to an actual 'substantial bodily injury' (see the autopsies. Serious contusions etc from the knee plus you know... death) you catch 3rd degree assault which is a felony.
    See the statute you quoted? You prove the underlying felony and that a death occurred during and you've got yourself a conviction.

    Additionally: Felony murder is deemed a form of reckless homicide despite there not being a direct mens rea requirement contained within it. The idea behind the concept is that when you commit a felony it is reasonable that someone may die, either resisting your illegal conduct or as a result of your conduct. You don't intend to kill anyone when you start out, its more of a "**** it" sort of mentality. That's why its parked in 2nd degree, where they park reckless mens rea homicides (see the other subdivisions in 2nd degree in MN).

    What you mean to say is that instead he should be charged with culpable negligence in the death of a suspect in his custody, 2nd degree manslaughter in MN. The problem being, that when two of his officers inform him a) this isn't the training and b) there are no vitals, and he continues that graduates far beyond mere negligence and crosses into recklessness.
    More than that though, to even get to THAT analysis they'll have to defeat the underlying felony assault analysis which they're not going to be able to do. Dude was in the car, cuffed, ready for transport when Chauvin hauled him back out and sat on his neck.
    If he can't justify that, its felony murder. Only if he can get past that can he beg that he was merely negligent.
     
  6. Starjet

    Starjet Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2009
    Messages:
    5,805
    Likes Received:
    1,678
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    And if the verdict isn’t what mob likes? Riots? If they bring it to the suburbs, civil war between Trump’s Nationalists and AOC’s Socialists? And all because the mob wants blood?

    I'm not convinced the jury is going deliver a verdict the mob will accept.

    Is this the future?
     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2020
  7. Reality

    Reality Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2014
    Messages:
    21,452
    Likes Received:
    7,603
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Why do you think the verdict would have trouble? I've walked you through what has to be shown, I've countered your examples with distinguishing factors etc.
    Are you saying you don't think this was excessive force as described? Why not?

    I think you're worried about things that aren't going to happen. And if they do, well that's what guns are for.
     
  8. Starjet

    Starjet Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2009
    Messages:
    5,805
    Likes Received:
    1,678
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Yeah, yeah, yeah. And everyone knew OJ was guilty. He walked. Better be prepared. I can already tell you’re not.
     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2020
  9. Starjet

    Starjet Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2009
    Messages:
    5,805
    Likes Received:
    1,678
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    That’s what they really want. It’s not about justice. It’s not about race. It’s about blood lust by the losers who love to blame others for their failures. Personally, I think he’s as guilty as hell, but I’m not on the jury. And no matter what, he has a right to a fair trial.
     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2020
  10. Zorro

    Zorro Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2015
    Messages:
    76,424
    Likes Received:
    51,236
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I support Public hanging for the guy kneeling on the neck. Public flogging for the rest.

    FOUR QUESTIONS FOR THE DEMOCRATS, THE MEDIA AND BLACK LIVES MATTER.

    Question 1: Why does the Democrat/left BLM think it’s OK to lump all Police in with a bad cop in Minneapolis but objects to lumping all protesters in with rioters, looters & arsonists
     
    garyd likes this.
  11. garyd

    garyd Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2012
    Messages:
    56,570
    Likes Received:
    16,656
    Trophy Points:
    113
    All he was saying was I can't breathe. Given that you can't effect the air way from the back or the side the cop may well have thought he was lying. Note this only diminishes the cops culpability. It should been clear after the incident in NYC during the Obama administration that claims that one can't breathe should not be dismissed out of hand which the cop certainly appears to have done.
     
  12. garyd

    garyd Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2012
    Messages:
    56,570
    Likes Received:
    16,656
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Nothing ever calms a mob they just go looking for the next sacrificial goat. That is the entire history of the French Revolution. Once the mob's blood lust is roused nothing else matters except spilling more blood. After they did Chauvin they'd want the other three then their wives and children. The only thing that ever sates the blood lust if a mob is the smell if its own blood on the mirning. The mob was coming after the directory to introduce them to the guillotine, but Napoleon Bonaparte first introduced it to a battery of 12 lb cannon and a loaf of double cannisters and the mob, what was left of it, that had ruled Paris like a ravenous beast for half a decade left France alone for several decades there after.
     
  13. Moriah

    Moriah Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2013
    Messages:
    7,646
    Likes Received:
    2,125
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    Derek Chauvin needs to be held accountable for his actions.
     
    garyd likes this.
  14. Moriah

    Moriah Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2013
    Messages:
    7,646
    Likes Received:
    2,125
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    Too bad Napoleon couldn't defeat Toussaint L'Overture like that. Napoleon's Army was defeated by a ragtag band of ex-slaves in Haiti.
     
  15. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2010
    Messages:
    63,706
    Likes Received:
    13,464
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I think the wives of the cops are fine for now. A not guilty plea will send the mob into another round of chaos. This is not the Paris Mob and eventually the mob does calm down.
     
  16. garyd

    garyd Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2012
    Messages:
    56,570
    Likes Received:
    16,656
    Trophy Points:
    113
    And deserved to be. But let's not forget Napoleon's inability to effectively reinforce his troops on the Island because of the British Navy made Toussaint's victory possible. There is a reason that during the same time frame was pretty much compelled to sell the Louisiana territory to the US virtually for a song. And in the end those newly acquired Western Territories would be the straw that ignited the Civil war and brought an end to slavery in the US.
     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2020
  17. garyd

    garyd Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2012
    Messages:
    56,570
    Likes Received:
    16,656
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Nope same difference. A mob is a mob. Mobs are immutable because they are not subject to reason or mercy or anything remotely uplifting. It is no different than the mobs that lynched black men a hundred years ago often for little or no reason.
     
  18. garyd

    garyd Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2012
    Messages:
    56,570
    Likes Received:
    16,656
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Nope.
     
  19. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2010
    Messages:
    63,706
    Likes Received:
    13,464
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Mobs are an interesting study for sure - but I think you are oversimplifying the situation. While little will satiate a mob - that does not mean one should go out of one's way to infuriate the mob and/or ignore paths that will calm the mob over time.

    We are not living in France in the middle ages either .. so there will be important differences along with the similarities.

    "Extra Ordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds" - is one book I have read on the topic. "Blood in the Streets" and "The Great Reckoning" are two others that look a repeating cycles in history.

    If I had to start with one it would be "Blood in the Streets" - but you can check out the first one online for free if interested.

    Like when you make popcorn - the old fashioned way - seeds into the pot, add oil and turn up the heat. I can't tell you which kernel will pop first - but what I can tell you is that if you keep the heat on, one of those seeds will pop ... turn up the heat further and eventually the lid will come off the pot.
     
  20. garyd

    garyd Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2012
    Messages:
    56,570
    Likes Received:
    16,656
    Trophy Points:
    113
    The historical evidence going back 2000 years or more is that the only thing that calms a mob is it's destruction.
     
  21. dairyair

    dairyair Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2010
    Messages:
    78,717
    Likes Received:
    19,868
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Look at all the similar cases and results. They will be cleared.
     
  22. dairyair

    dairyair Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2010
    Messages:
    78,717
    Likes Received:
    19,868
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Yes. If a black man resists a white cop. It is right to kill. Happens with regularity in USA.
     
  23. dairyair

    dairyair Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2010
    Messages:
    78,717
    Likes Received:
    19,868
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Killing him 13 yrs later is the real punishment?

    That's right, he's black. And you represent the confederate flag.
     
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2020
  24. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2010
    Messages:
    63,706
    Likes Received:
    13,464
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I have no clue what you are talking about.
     
  25. Moonglow

    Moonglow Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2013
    Messages:
    20,754
    Likes Received:
    8,047
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Nope, there is only authority.
     

Share This Page