Does anyone here support defunding or eliminating police? If so why?

It is a fundamental feature of the racist tradition of DP governance throughout the existence of the DP as a governing institution in America.

For instance DP presidential candidate Sen. Amy Klobuchar failed to get Chauvin out of the PD in 2006 when she was the Hennepin County Prosecutor.

"But Rep. James Clyburn (D-S.C.), a close ally of Biden’s, acknowledged this week that Floyd’s death would likely have an impact on the VP race.

“We are all victims sometimes of timing,” he told reporters, according to CNN. “This is very tough timing for Amy Klobuchar."

Asked about the same topic during an interview with Vanity Fair, he said that “it certainly won’t help.”

“But it’s not just this. Her history with similar situations when she was a prosecutor came up time and again during the campaign,” he added. “I suspect this incident plays into that.”

Biden in a separate MSNBC interview declined to offer specifics on his pick. But on Friday MoveOn, a progressive advocacy group, called on Klobuchar to "immediately take herself out of the running" because of previous role as Hennepin's prosecutor and a "failure to hold the @MinneapolisPD accountable for racism and abuse."
THE HILL, Klobuchar on defense as Floyd death puts spotlight on record, BY JORDAIN CARNEY - 05/29/20.
https://thehill.com/homenews/senate...fense-as-floyd-death-puts-spotlight-on-record

 

That was the problem with the stop and frisk in New York. What was proposed to be a method of getting guns off the street was used to rack up 100s of thousands of chickenshit drug arrests by the use of illegal search and seizure. Very few guns were found in these stop and frisk shakedowns compared to the arrests for small amounts of marijuana, cocaine, or pills. . Also, police routinely confiscated (stole) millions of dollars from citizens without even finding any guns or drugs. How does one find illegal drugs during a routine pat down for weapons? The police have used this idiotic drug war to circumvent the Bill of rights and falsely detain and arrest citizens and steal millions of dollars from those they are being paid to protect. Those mainly targeted are people of color who view these cops as thieves, liars and kidnappers. Therein lies the problem we are dealing with now.

 

We are not talking about stop and frisk or confiscation of valuables . The officer arrests the person for whatever reason. He searches for a weapon and finds something else such as drugs. But could be just other evidence of a crime. Should that evidence be allowable in court? You are claiming that they can only be patted down for a weapon. What if they find something else?

 

Given that our criminal justice system has virtually legalized use of drugs why wouldn't their possession be ignored. Sanctioning use and punishing sales is a formula for the creation of sophisticate drug smuggling cartels.

 

Whether they are ignored or not, they are illegal. But that is ignoring the question. It would not have to be drugs. It could be anything illegal or maybe just evidence from a crime. By the way, a mere pat down is not adequate to search for a weapon. It could be a number of items that do not necessarily feel like a weapon. I could put a small pistol in a padded pouch and put it in my pocket. It would not feel like a pistol. In order to be sure they have to empty their pockets. You may not like it, but that is reality.

 

We already have sophisticated drug smuggling cartels. Had 'em for decades.

What you are talking about is a formula for growing your own pot, which millions do now.

However, in a bunch of states, it's legal.

No drama..

 

The problem with stop and frisk is that it worked far too well.

I watched it clean up NYC with my own eyes. Broken windows and stop and frisk worked miraculously well. New York City went from an absolute madhouse of a jungle under Koch and Dinkins, to one of the safest and most-transformed cities in the US under the Giuliani and Bloomberg. The regressive downward slide came on fast as soon as De Blasio took office.

The left hates it when conservative methods work amazingly-well, while their own ideals fail spectacularly when put into practice. Therein lies the problem of the riots NYC is dealing with now.

I don't need to tell you though, do I, jack? You watched it all happen too.

 

Pretty tame, if you ask me,.

 

A policy of tolerating use of addictive drugs and punishing sellers only encourages more sophisticated powerful sellers - cartels. The power of these drug cartels will continue to expand as demand for their product expands. The War On Drugs is not a war on drugs or drug use. It is a harassment of small time drug dealers and seizure of the occasional large cache. IOW, a minor cost of doing business. An approach that keeps the price up and discourages any new competition for fully capitalized established cartels. $$$

 

Reasonable suspicion of a crime must be ascertained before even detaining a person or stopping a vehicle. The courts and the legislators have given police agencies the right to run rampant over the Bill of Rights here in America. When I was a kid there was a song called Get your kicks on Route 66. I did it a few times when I was a kid. San Bernardino to Chicago then East to NYC. It was a great way to see America in an old Chevy Impala or a Cadillac. Try taking that ride now or for that matter drive anywhere in the US with California plates. Arizona, Texas, Oklahoma, Missouri, Indiana, Ohio, Pennsylvania and New Jersey have an army of highway robbers out there pulling people over for no reason but having Cal plates and shaking them down digging through their luggage and trunks. We need to get back to our roots as a republic and put these threiving scumbags out of business.

 

Zero tolerance for minor crimes was also very effective. Those perps frequently had outstanding warrants. Would not work now with the current zero bail system. Police are irrelevant where criminals cannot be held, tried, and effectively prosecuted and punished.

 

How about if a mugger mugs you and a cop sees it and arrests him. Do you think it might be OK to actually pat him down and empty his pockets without a warrant? How about if they catch them in some other kind of crime? Do you think it might be OK to actually pat him down and empty his pockets without a warrant?

I have driven just everywhere in the US with different plates and I have never had this problem.

 

The War on Drugs was Nixon's revenge on the hippies.

It's killed many thousands. I don't even want to know how many.

What we should do is create a panel of Docs, and have them set drug policy. Of course, that would be the sane thing to do, and we don't do sane much.

You ever watch the French Connection? After France agreed to join our Drug War, their problems got a lot worse. They had too much to sell, so they were sending them here.

But France isn't batsh*t crazy, and they stopped doing the War and Drugs, and focused on treatment, and things got better.

Take a look at the drug laws in Portugal.

 

"Zero-tolerance policing runs counter to community policing and logical crime prevention efforts. To whatever degree street sweeps are viewed by citizens as brutal, suspect, militaristic, or the biased efforts of "outsiders," citizens will be discouraged from taking active roles in community building activities and crime prevention initiatives in conjunction with the police. Perhaps this is why the communities that most need neighborhood watch programs are least likely to be populated by residents who take active roles in them.

Critics say that zero-tolerance policing will fail because its practice destroys several important requisites for successful community policing, namely police accountability, openness to the public, and community cooperation (Cox and Wade 1998: 106).

Zero tolerance policies violate principles of health and human services, and standards of the education and healthy growth of children, families and communities. Even traditional community service providers in the 1970s aimed for "services for all" (e.g., zero reject) instead of 100% societal exclusion(zero tolerance). Public administration and disability has supported principles which include education, employment, housing, transportation, recreation and political participation in the community.[44] which zero tolerance groups claim are not a right in the US.

Opponents of zero tolerance believe that such a policy neglects investigation on a case-by-case basis and may lead to unreasonably harsh penalties for crimes that may not warrant such penalties in reality. Another criticism of zero-tolerance policies is that it gives officers and the legal system little discretion in dealing with offenders. Zero-tolerance policies may prohibit their enforcers from making the punishment fit the crime.

It also may cause offenders to go all out, knowing if the punishment is the same for a little or a lot. This phenomenon of human nature is described in an adage that dates back to at least the 17th century, "might as well be hanged for a sheep as a lamb": until 1820, the English law prescribed hanging for stealing anything worth more than one shilling, whether that was a low-value lamb or a whole flock of sheep.[45]

In the Kids for cash scandal, judge Mark Ciavarella, who promoted a platform of zero tolerance, received kickbacks for constructing a private prison that housed juvenile offenders, and then proceeded to fill the prison by sentencing children to extended stays in juvenile detention for offenses as minimal as mocking a principal on Myspace, scuffles in hallways, trespassing in a vacant building, and shoplifting DVDs from Walmart. Critics of zero-tolerance policies argue that harsh punishments for minor offences are normalized. The documentary Kids for Cash interviews experts on adolescent behaviour, who argue that the zero tolerance model has become a dominant approach to policing juvenile offences after the Columbine shooting.[46]"


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero_tolerance

 

No rational solution would be politically acceptable. Government providing the drugs at cost would eliminate the criminal sellers. Voters will never go for it. Minor corporal punishment for users would eliminate almost all use. Vioters might go for that, but not after the sadistic excess was caught on a cell phone. IOW, there will be no end to widespread drug addiction in a nation with tens of millions of idlers with no access to productive work and a living wage.

 

Zero tolerance of criminal behavior is a good thing so long as the criminal code is short and sweet.
IOW, not now.

 

Red light and speed trap cameras are robotic highway robbers, and places like NY and CA are fairly bristling with them.

I'll bring it to your attention that red light and speed trap cameras were deemed to be ILLEGAL in the entire state by the AG of Indiana.

 

Evidence is that bags of rocks belong to various PDs.

Sorry to mess in your myth.

 

What the hell are you blathering about?

In 2006 it was policy for all officer involved cases to go to the grand jury.
Not a decision Klobuchar made.
Yeah, the timing is bad for her. Not because she did anything wrong but becuase of unfortunate timing and optics.

Want to place blame?
Put it on the White grand jury that failed to indict.
Put it on the White leadership at the MPD for not firing him

Put it on yourself for failing to look beyond the headline and getting owned.

AGAIN!

 

Another unresponsive reply. Is James Clyburn blathering about Klobuchar and Harris?
The headline is spot on. Focus:

"But Rep. James Clyburn (D-S.C.), a close ally of Biden’s, acknowledged this week that Floyd’s death would likely have an impact on the VP race.

“We are all victims sometimes of timing,” he told reporters, according to CNN. “This is very tough timing for Amy Klobuchar."

Asked about the same topic during an interview with Vanity Fair, he said that “it certainly won’t help.”

“But it’s not just this. Her history with similar situations when she was a prosecutor came up time and again during the campaign,” he added. “I suspect this incident plays into that.”

Biden in a separate MSNBC interview declined to offer specifics on his pick. But on Friday MoveOn, a progressive advocacy group, called on Klobuchar to "immediately take herself out of the running" because of previous role as Hennepin's prosecutor and a "failure to hold the @MinneapolisPD accountable for racism and abuse."

THE HILL, Klobuchar on defense as Floyd death puts spotlight on record, BY JORDAIN CARNEY - 05/29/20.
https://thehill.com/homenews/senate...fense-as-floyd-death-puts-spotlight-on-record

I know its an election year but LW apologists for DP racism is not working.
The DNC needs to defund its campaign strategists, and tell them to send their CV's to the Minneapolis PD.
There are a few openings there.

 

I don't but Like the idea of communities hiring private forces. I would like to see how that plays out.

 

Still blathering I see.
Clyburn is telling you the same thisg I did.
Your failure to comprehend surely IDs you as a Trumpinista.

 

If you don't mind, I would rather have someone other than another fox to determine if a fox's attack on a hen house was justified.

 

So you believe nothing less than a cop killing a citizen can even be considered as an abuse of power by a cop? Really?

 

I don't care whether you mind or not. Facts are facts.