18 murders in 24 hours: Inside the most violent day in 60 years in Chicago

What makes you think that isn't what happens in the majority of police interactions? We're in the communication age. Trouble is, people will only communicate things that grab attention. Do you think that a tweet someone made about a police interaction like you describe would go viral? Do you really think you can frame the current system as being founded on the premise that drunks need to be shot at Wendy's? Doubtful. There is just too much data to refute that premise.

Beyond that, drunks, drug addicted, and violent criminals quite often aren't content to simply be allowed to go home. The entire situation is not predictable in a way that allows such black and white statements about what should have happened. These interactions go sideways FAST. The current strategy is for the police to immediately establish and maintain control of the situation so that potential for terrible outcomes is reduced, but it can never be eliminated completely. Especially when mental disorders, drugs and other intoxicants are involved.

Let's say you tell all your cops to ticket drunks and send them home. They go home and kick the snot out of their partner because they were drunk and unpredictable, and got into an argument about losing the car. Better outcome?

You're never going to be able to structure a system based on data at the fringes, but data at the fringes is what occupies the public attention. That's the problem you have to overcome. It's not that people are unpredictable. The problem is that people are bad at record keeping. It's the traumatic things that stick in their minds, not the numerous times when everything was kosher.

 

So your position that racial profiling and harassment by the police with the occasional killing of the unarmed, white privilege and systematic racism are the delusion of entire race of people. Millions of "rioters" are wrong. You have the special knowledge. The problem is, per you, their culture, which is broken. Why is it broken? Could it be because they live in poverty or is it they just don't have the moral fiber that white people have?

I clearly answered you on the difference in gun play. All cultures that live in poverty have higher crime rates and when poverty is concentrated as in an urban setting it is exponentially worse. Add guns and you increase the murder rate. It's simple. I gave, earlier, the example of South Africa which had the highest murder rate in the world before they instituted gun control now no longer #1.

Incorrect a lack of morals and a tendency toward violence is the root cause....because of poverty and loose gun laws

Well New York, LA and San Francisco have stricter but Chicago is the poster child. But really what good does that do when you can drive 40 minutes to Gary and buy whatever you can afford.

Thanks for the rambling response and missing my point. Less emphasis on arrest and more on community engagement. One thing that has been tried for frequent police calls for what is known as a "wellness check" which is usually a nutter off his meds and family fights is to send a team of a policeman, social worker and medic. It has gotten positive results and little funding.

 

Yes, that is exactly the truth. They ARE wrong. Its not even a question, but a statistical fact that they are wrong. There is nothing special about the knowledge I have, no in fact its available to everyone. Yet despite that, most dont even know about the statistics and how they dont support these narratives. They simply listen to the MSM, and the anecdotes they push. These anecdotes aren't a representation of the greater truth, they are just individual incidents...BUT they make people angry. You control the way people feel, and you control how they think. So yes, the purposeful presentation of these anecdotes to piss off the masses absolutely contributes to the false narratives that fly in the face of the available statistics.

You clearly gave an opinion that flew in the face of the example I gave. The example I gave clearly demonstrated the guns are not the issue, culture is. If poverty were the issue you would see higher rates than are currently happening in the white community, but you do not. Because again, its not poverty, its not guns, its culture.

I have elaborated on the issue with their culture already before, multiple times, including this thread and why. Its objectively correct, and supported by the available data.

 

But is if FAR easier to blame an inanimate object than to address a cultural issue.

 

I addressed your point quite clearly. You gave the example of sending a drunk home with a ticket. There's a reason they end up in the drunk tank. It's a safety issue you're ignoring.

As for wellness checks, got any statistics on how many people get shot during wellness checks?

As for the outraged mobs you referenced, their outrage is exactly as I defined it. Misinformed. Just like your policy of sending social workers into potentially dangerous situations.

 

There is systematic racism now. All statistics point out that it just is. Black and white people do the equal amount of drugs as in dealing and using... even to the point that white people use more,... is still leading that by far more black people are found with drugs than white people. The systematic racism than goes on that far more white people when found with drugs are not being arrested compared to black people. The systematic racism than goes on that far more black people than get convicted than white people. The systematic racism than goes on that black people -when taking into account criminal back grounds- are getting tougher sentences on the same offenses compared to white people. And than white people get on parole earlier than black people. Racism is simply systematically present at EVERY corner.


And your idea that racism in the past wasn't systematic... while it's widely known that Arians and Jews owned as good as all the black slaves in the US.... really shows that you aint got all the marbles. Sorry to be giving you this message.

 

Impossible. Seeing all mankind goes back to the beginning of time we are all of the same breed. Race is a term invented by man. A term used to divide us. White race, black race, yellow race. Are black dogs, white dogs and yellow dogs still not canines? Are not terriers, hounds and shepherd's still canines, different breeds but still dogs. If the Bible is a history of the beginning of the human's then where does it talk about different races? So what we really have is a history of man's inhumanity to his fellow humans. If one is to research history you will find examples of enslavement by all different groups of people. It always has to do with power and a means to control those who may present a threat to that power.

Do you know that 1 out 5 marriages in the United States is a mixed marriage. That's not systemic racism. Now I agree with you that in some areas that blacks receive stiffer and longer sentences than a lot of whites. Many times it is because whites go out and get legal consul and the lawyers work out plea deals with the police and courts before it reaches the judge. Many times it is the attitude and the personal presentation presented before the judge.

Do you think the protesters did any good? They had, but, the message is getting lost because there are groups that infiltrated the movement and have a completely different agenda and violence is no stranger. The question is does BLM want justice or revenge or both?

 

Wrong, you are blaming a symptom for the disease, a lack of morals and a propensity to violence is the problem.

False, because if you understood anything about gun laws, you would understand you cannot drive to Gary and buy a handgun, Federal law prohibits such.

False, what it has done is gotten a lot of cops killed.

 

Blaming guns for the problem is like blaming pain for cancer.

But anti-gunners must blame guns, it's how they are wired.

 

So you are saying it is the inherent content of African American's character, lack of morals and propensity to violence, that is the problem? How does that sound?

My bad, I assumed you would know that it would be an illegal gun purchase.

My city's trial was called Mobile Crisis Assistance Team, or MCAT. It resulted in only 2% arrests, 85% of the police liked it and no cops were harmed in the process. Here's what some other cities are doing: https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/...social-workers-medics-and-people-without-guns

 

For many of those who are raised in the hood, as hoods, it is quite applicable.

How much patrolling have you done in the ghetto lately?

That makes no sense at all, unless you are admitting to posting false information to support your anti-gun narrative.

Quoting Vice like it is a factual source of information, that's rich, no wonder you buy into this crap.

 

You say it is impossible. While the statistics prove otherwise.

And less than 1 in 10 marriages of a white person is a mixed marriage vs 1 in 4 of black people.

While the odds are that the US won't change. That some white cop lynches a black man to death is nothing new. Colored people are constantly being harassed by white people among them cops. On a platform like reddit you can constantly find new examples how this plays out. That's where people post their crap they recorded with their own cellphones. And that stuff leads to things like: https://forcechange.com/562292/fire...alist-police-officer-who-sports-nazi-tattoos/

Yeah. We need to respect them civil servants who have a nazi march among them, and never mind that they are there to SERVE the tax payer.

 

Do you think whites don't get stopped and roughed up by police? They do but it's not a big agenda with them. Most whites know to keep their mouths shut when approached by a cop. I never was one of them though.

 

Where are these statistics that proves them (and most everyone) wrong? Sounds like you are suffering from a heavy dose of confirmation bias and a rash of conspiracy theory. The public is being controlled by MSM? Sheep, cattle? Can't think for themselves. Here's some statistics that you won't consider:

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-ta...s-we-know-about-race-and-policing-in-the-u-s/ https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-new...raffic-stops-new-evidence-racial-bias-n980556

Your example about gun use was bogus. You compared a lawful population with an unlawful population and you say see they act unlawfully by shooting each other with guns so it's not the guns. Uh, yes it is. If the unlawful didn't have guns they wouldn't shoot each other. It's rocket science.

Their culture is not the cause of poverty, where is your "objective" evidence otherwise?

You may have thought it was clear but I thought it was meandering scenarios that didn't have anything to do with community engagement policing.

You've not heard of psych patients being shot by police?

The protesters, blacks and most whites think policing needs to change and the right dismisses it...well they've been wrong before.

A reprint...My city's trial was called Mobile Crisis Assistance Team, or MCAT. It consisted of a policeman, medic and social services specialist. It resulted in only 2% arrests, 85% of the police liked it and no cops were harmed in the process.
https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/...social-workers-medics-and-people-without-guns

So you are saying those blacks raised in the "hood" lack morals and are violent? That means living in poverty is the cause.

I live in a mixed older neighborhood one block from section 8 apartments and you?

I was referring to the strict gun laws of Chicago comment and said Gary is 40 min. away and if you got the doe you get the gat. Any fool would know it would be illegal. What's so hard to understand?

You dismissed Vice's list of policing alternatives in various cities as crap. If you can't prove the list is crap then you are full of crap.

 

This gentleman can enlighten us all:

 

The stats on are the FBI website,look them up. I think it is you who is suffering from a heavy dose of confirmation bias when you literally aren't even aware of the statistics. That is on you. Yes, the public is being controlled by the MSM. THey control the way you feel with anecdotes, therefore how you think. Your inability to come to that objectively correct conclusion is on you.

My example about guns was objectively correct and you still fail to even beat it at all. You simply ignore it, call it bogus, and run away. Guns arent the issue, poverty isn't the issue. Its culture, again that is exactly what the data supports. If that wasn't true, you would see a much higher crime rate in the white community, particularly violent. It isn't so, because its not poverty that is the problem, its culture. The evidence is you dont see the same violent crime rates at such a statistical anomaly of a rate, as you do in the black community. I have mentioned that multiple times, you like many on the left simply ignore the evidence and repeat your questions as if you hadn't already been proven wrong. You have.

 

All 100% true and does a good job of proving how many are media programmed to the point of being illogical.

 

Now that it is clear you should address the argument. The problem isn't with community engagement. The problem is directly related to society's inability to measure all of the variables involved in the calculus required to keep both civilians and law enforcement safe. You gave an example of a drunk getting shot at Wendy's instead of being ticketed and allowed to go home. Analogies suck for making arguments for change. How many drunks did get ticketed and sent home? How many went home and beat their wives? How many got back into a different car and killed someone? The policies that are currently in place are there for a reason. You can't just change them because you feel they did not address a specific problem. You're just going to make old problems re-occur.

You've not heard of social workers getting killed by unstable clients?

The right is dismissing bad policy ideas. That does not mean the right does not see a problem, nor does it mean that the right does not make changes to address problems. The right wants to weaken the police union's ability to hide police abuse, and create stronger pathways to terminate abusive police. The left opposes that. The right wants to strengthen sentencing for violent offenders. The left opposes that. The right has been firmly against the militarization of the police. The left sends the police out to arrest people for selling loose cigarettes. The right has its poor policies too, but this is not a one sided issue with one side having all the right answers. First and foremost we have to identify the right problems, and the protesters chanting racism are on the wrong tangent.

Connecticut has a crisis team too. They are hours away when seconds count, and they are bound by HIPAA in ways that restrain their ability to be effective. You can't treat someone who doesn't agree to treatment. They can be called in by the police when appropriate, but if the person in question tells them to take a hike, they have to take a hike. And I don't know how your city's policy functioned, but they don't call the crisis team to head into a crack house for a mental health related domestic dispute until the scene is secure. That would certainly skew the arrest statistics.

 

Ah... the new strategy... thug caused death doesn't matter because thugs aren't part of the plantation hierarchy... Got it. And thanks for splainin that to us.

How about this, you know, just as a counterpoint. Just as the police are being required to withdraw from minority neighborhoods, crime is on the uptick. We see it in Chicago, we see it in Detroit. We see in it Minneapolic, DC, Philly, NYC, LA, etc. Now, riddle me this. Absence of police seem to encourage thuggery. And in the same communities in those cities. Gosh, it's like it's being coordinated or something .... could it be that is what the plantation folk actually want to happen? Who do you suppose is responsible for density? Conservatives? LOL.

And just for the record, police also kill non AA unarmed folks too. The fact that this also escaped your narrative is instructional. Why you ask? It's racist. So, your own conditionality here creates an internal conflict within your own message.

 

https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1990-12-30-vw-10441-story.html

 

This guy is spot on. People need to check his other videos. He has a lot more to say. Thanks for the post.

 

I'm quoting myself because I want to clarify the bold part of that. You can change policies to address problems. You can't eliminate policies without taking into account the problems those policies were meant to address.

 

I think I'll answer you both at once because I'm not as wordy. I am well aware of the crime statistics. Crime, including violent crime, is half what it was in the 90's but the public's perception of it has remained the same. Who commits crime? Not the wealthy or middle class, it's the poor. African American have twice the poverty rate as whites therefore their crime rate is higher. So logically if there were more middle class blacks and fewer in poverty their crime rate would go down. So why are so many in poverty or near poverty? The right seems to think it is a lack of character but it's a little more complex and it seems to be difficult for the right to understand. They don't want to blame the dominant society which they are a part of as to why the median net worth of whites is $117.000 and blacks $17,000. They don't want to know why blacks couldn't buy a home to accumulate wealth for future generations. They don't want to know what science knows about what stressful living conditions does to a child's brain development. They don't want to know about not making a living wage working full time in the service industry gets them government subsidies, no insurance, a rental in the poorest neighborhoods, with the worst school systems and no money for emergencies.

An example given above that when blue collar whites lost their jobs and became impoverished they acted like animal black Chicagoans. What was the impetus for whites suddenly having low IQs, impulsive, genetically inferior, violent, lack of moral fiber, could it be....... poverty?

A google search failed to find the "crab pot effect" by Roland Fryer. A less official name for it is simple jealousy, but I did find a study of his that demonstrated police were 50% more likely to use force on blacks than whites.

As I have said before Democrats have not done enough and Republicans ignore the issue. All the right has is conspiracies and getting their underground bunker prepared.

 

I dont think you are aware of the crime statistics because no rational analysis of them would lead you to the answers you are getting. Yet if you look at white people in poverty and take the rates of violent crime they commit, it is NOT comparable to to be black crime rate. THAT is where your idea that poverty is what leads to crime falls apart. Their poverty rate does not cover down for the rate of violent crime committed. Again, this is where your idea poverty being the issue falls apart. There is truth that poverty perhaps opens the door as people have less to lose while in poverty, but culture is by far the main issue. You want to blame everything on racism, but the actual issue is a bit more complicated for the left to understand.

The left doesn’t want to know why the single motherhood rate is so high now, higher than decades ago when the country was more racist. Clearly it can’t be racism that has their single motherhood rate so high, yet that is what the left ignorantly wants to claim. The single largest attribute as to whether or not someone will end up in jail and therefore poverty especially for a young male...is whether or not there is a father in the home for him to look up to. This problem leads to a myriad of issues for society to have to deal with, including violence. Fix this, the vast majority of the issues plaguing the black community are also fixed. Not all ofcourse, but the overwhelming majority.

You seem to think that being wordy makes you argument valid, it doesn’t. You are misdiagnosing the problem and therefore coming to the wrong solutions. The issue starts exactly where I have said, and the other problems with school systems and what not are simply symptoms of the issue of the family unit breakdown. Everything you named off, starts in the home, literally everything in some way is related to the breakdown of the home leading to the bad behavior that leads to such **** neighborhoods, which leads to schools being such garbage because no one wants to teach there, which leads to perpetually being uneducated and poor. Which leads to a new generation of ****.

It’s strange, because parts of your argument while you believe support you, actually support my argument. For instance the science of brain development for kids in **** homes. That literally confirms my argument of culture being the issue, of everything starting in the home. It’s because we recognize this, (despite your ignorance stating otherwise), that we hold the positions we hold on the right.

Democrats have done nothing, Republicans recognize its not our problem to fix. It is not my job to make black family stay together. That is an in-house issue they have to fix on their own. Although a way to encourage it....is to stop encouraging the mothers marry the state over the father.

These issues are self perpetuating, and start in the home and are fixed in the home.

 

~ I think this is the biggest issue of black Americans in poverty and high crime rate.