Adoption

Discussion in 'Abortion' started by Sappho, Jun 13, 2020.

  1. Maquiscat

    Maquiscat Well-Known Member

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    And here is where you are getting into two different things. The legal ability to make a decision has nothing to do with the information needed or desired to make a decision. The court decision is only about the woman's right to choose. What is needed to make that decision is irrelevant to that right, unless information desired to that end is being withheld (as opposed to not asked for by the decision maker).

    I somehow feel that you are ignorant of much of the process most women go through when making her decisions once she finds out she's pregnant. Most won't sit there and decide to abort or not, and then after deciding to not abort, start thinking about the options after the child comes to term. Most consider all the options before making a decision.
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2020
  2. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

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    .

    Which is exactly why adoption should not be in the Abortion forum.

    The court decision is only about the woman's right to choose. What is needed to make that decision is irrelevant to that right, unless information desired to that end is being withheld (as opposed to not asked for by the decision maker).



    You think I'm ignorant ?!
    ..and then you proceed to Be The Authority On What All Women Think and Do ???? LOL!


    Sure ,maybe they do...so what?

    Again, there are only two options, two choices, in the abortion issue, abortion or gestation.

    Adoption is ONLY an option if the woman initially chooses gestation.

    Now, I have put up with your gratuitous insults and evasion and confusion and now, I really am done


    But Hey , why don't you start a thread in the Abortion Forum on paint color choices for the nursery ???
     
  3. Monash

    Monash Well-Known Member

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    Fox, this will probably be my last posting on this particular part of the Forum. As I noted earlier the Abortion thread is not one I tend to post on or see any 'good' options/agendas that can be advocated that don't involve 'bad' outcomes for some else. That said I've decided to reply one last time, specifically to your post above. This is not because I considered it insulting so much as but because it bothered me at the time and I had to think through the ramifications of your post for a while before replying.

    The thing is if you (and others) seriously consider this to be a valid viewpoint then you are literally saying that you don't care about the fates of people in other countries. They are literally not your concern. It means it doesn't matter to you that other women in other countries don't have access to proper birth control or pregnancy advice. It doesn't matter that they don't have the same rights as you do or access to the same services as you do . Forgetting gender for a moment your actually saying that it doesn't matter whether people in other countries live or die, have the right to voice their opinions, seek a better life for themselves and their families or otherwise generally enjoy the same privileges and possibilities for a better future that you do.

    And the thing is if you do adopt this point of view then by default all the people in those 'other countries' don't have to give a dam about you or your rights. If the government of whatever country you live in removed your right to birth control or abortion tomorrow then that's not anyone's concern outside of county you live in. Its not others concern if they take away your right to vote, your freedom of expression or any other basic human right. In fact it literally means you are saying 'it's all about me' and no-one else outside of where I live matters.

    Now it may be that this is how you actually think. I don't know. If so however it means you have to live with the consequences. That said it is an issue you want to reflect upon before posting in other threads that 'you don't care what other countries do' or something similar.
     
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2020
  4. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

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    LOL! What a load of pompous hogwash....thanks for the morning laugh....


    (righties have such useful imaginations...as they sit in their basements mumbling )

    This is almost as funny as in another thread where I stated the fact that once whites and blacks were not allowed to marry...and a rightie turned it into me supporting Islamic jihadists ...LOL....no wonder they elected Trump ..
     
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2020
  5. Monash

    Monash Well-Known Member

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    OK, that's fine. I tried. I'm not BTW a 'righty' or Trump supporter (far from it) . Very much a 'centrist I'm afraid. Also no basement, no mumbling, no intention of getting you to 'support' anything. Just pointing out that you, me and everyone else on the planet are or should be an even footing concerning our basic human rights and that a lack of concern for those who don't reflects back on the person who thinks this. In other words that no-one is 'special'. You obviously disagree and that's OK, your allowed to. More than happy BTW to show your post to to others and see what they think. By all means do the same, or not.
     
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2020
  6. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

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    I don't need "backup"....but feel free to show any posts to anyone and maybe they'll see your vivid imagination at work….How , with no real answer to my posts, you had to make up stuff ;)
     
  7. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

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    """"""you, me and everyone else on the planet are or should be an even footing concerning our basic human rights""""""""

    I do commend you for being totally PRO-CHOICE !!!
     
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2020
  8. Monash

    Monash Well-Known Member

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    My point was you have to actually 'care' whether or not people people are on an even footing. Care implies at least some degree of motivation to try and make it so or alternatively stop it from not being the case if someone tries to take rights away from someone else. Acknowledging something is a 'fact' but not considering it 'your problem' if its out of sight makes any statement on the matter pretty meaningless. You obviously 'care' about procreative rights in the country you live in, fine. But if those are in fact 'rights' then they extend everywhere and you have to care about them everywhere. In other words they're either universal or their meaningless.

    And I'm sorry if I sound like I'm pontificating but its a point I feel strongly on.
     
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2020
  9. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

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    You left out """I do commend you for being totally PRO-CHOICE !!!"""

    in the post of mine you quoted....why was that?
     
  10. MJ Davies

    MJ Davies Well-Known Member

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    I can see that. With adoption, people (in general) assume the biological mother is "selfish" or "weak" and other such terms to basically shame her for giving up her baby. This is probably why we hear so many stories of closed adoptions and biological mothers refusing to meet their adult child/ren who've been placed for adoption.

    Secondly, for some reason I don't understand, some people think it's "better" to have your own child than to adopt someone else's child. I don't really understand this at all but I've heard it countless times.

    On a more personal note, I have a neighbor who was adopted. Her two brothers were biologically conceived. She is about 50 years old and is constantly depressed and suicidal because she feels that her mother (the only one she's known since birth) doesn't love her the same as she does her "real" kids. (I HATE the way people use the word "real" for that). No one can know the inner workings of a family so I can't speak to her claim that her mother treats her differently. I just know that she is not well-adjusted and blames it all on being adopted.
     
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  11. Monash

    Monash Well-Known Member

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    I didn't think being 'commended' for something like that was worth commenting on. Lets face it, do you really need to be commended for being 'pro-choice'? For that matter there might be someone on the other side of the debate hanging around waiting for 'affirmation'. If that's the case then their opinions on the topic are total BS from the start.
     
  12. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

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    Uuuhhh, is that dancing around the idea that you are Pro-Choice?

    Are you? I assumed so since you said , """"""""you, me and everyone else on the planet are or should be an even footing concerning our basic human rights""""""""
    No need here to pontificate, just a yes or no....
     
  13. Monash

    Monash Well-Known Member

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    Pro-choice. I simply acknowledge people have opposing and (strongly) held views on the subject. I don't agree with them and oppose any legislative changes they might seek to instigate (there haven't been any over here for a while BTW) but while I oppose their actions I can't rightly say their not entitled to their opinions - not if I'm going to claim I have the right to mine.
     
  14. MJ Davies

    MJ Davies Well-Known Member

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    Many years ago, I met a young lady who became pregnant by her boyfriend. She went to see a doctor (normal stuff) and was told that she needed a specialist. She met with him and he indicated that she needed to have a vaginal exam to which she agreed. She said that she felt quite a bit of pain during the exam and, later, went home and lost her fetus. She was convinced this doctor gave her a D&C without her knowledge or consent.

    At first, I thought she may have been mistaken and wanted to make sense of losing her child but I met other future mothers with the same stories about the same doctor. He apparently told one pregnant woman that her baby had Downs Syndrome and a heart defect and offered a medical abortion. She refused. Three months later, she gave birth to a healthy daughter. She, too, wondered about the doctor and eventually heard about him from other future mothers in the community. She wasn't young like the others, but she was in an interracial marriage. Apparently, this doctor was playing God/god/goddesses or whatever and willfully suggesting medical abortions to anyone HE deemed should not have a child.

    To this day, that so-called doctor is still in practice and probably still cherry picking which couples have a right to have a family. It saddens me that he will probably pass away with everyone thinking he was such an honorable man. Only the long line of women subjected to his abuse know any different. It's unconscionable.
     
  15. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

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    It's a shame the women didn't report this quack.....

    ANYONE who thinks they should decide for a woman whether or not she gestates is evil and vile.
     
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2020
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  16. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

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    Uuuhhh, is that dancing around the idea that you are Pro-Choice?

    Are you? I assumed so since you said , """"""""you, me and everyone else on the planet are or should be an even footing concerning our basic human rights""""""""
    No need here to pontificate, just a yes or no....

    An answer! .....but you missed the part where I said you didn't need to pontificate ;)
     
  17. MJ Davies

    MJ Davies Well-Known Member

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    Agreed. However, it is VERY difficult to get an legal accountability against doctors. For one, another doctor has to testify that malpractice happened. As with law enforcement personnel, the ranks close and everyone in the know is silent. Add in tens of thousands in legal fees and this evil, vile man walks free. It's deplorable on so many levels.
     
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